User talk:The Paradox



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--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 23:25, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

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Kamandi stuff
Well... I just skimmed through my Kamandi Archives, and they don't really provide an "official" race name for the various animals. They're pretty much just referred to by their generic species; ala Tiger People are just called Tigers, Rat People are just called Rats, etc. Interestingly though, the humans have been classified as both Bunker People and Nuclear People, so maybe the "People" aspect of the naming convention still works.

Also, what are your thoughts on the naming convention for the Kamandi: At World's End Vertigo series? It's a different continuity from the old Kirby title, so they are definitely not Earth-AD. Perhaps we should call them "Character (At World's End)"? --Brian Kurtz 16:15, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm jumping in on the Kamandi discussion. Hate to disturb you guys, but what should we do about recent appearances of Command D? It's an important location for Kamandi (he takes his name from it), but it's also shown up underneath Bludhaven, being used by the Atomic Knights (first seen in Battle for Bludhaven 6). Do we just list everything as a blind appearance for Command D? I mean, we don't even have a page for it, but I'm thinking we should talk this one out before doing anything, especially as you guys seem to be much more Kamandi-oriented than myself.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 16:24, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * 1) Interesting find within the Archives. My first thought is to drop the Men and People and just label the 70's races Rats (Earth-AD) and the like to maintain accuracy with the source material. I don't think it would be too much work (yet) and I'm willing to handle the change-over. Does that work for you guys?
 * 2) Character (At World's End) seems to be a very good solution, as it fits the "other continuity" format we've been using for Elseworlds and other Vertigo titles.
 * 3) Locations, location, locations. This one's been bugging me for a while. The Command D bunker is one of the more obvious conflicts, with Earth-AD, At World's End, Earth-51 and Earth-37(?) variations, but it's far from the only one. It also happens with real-world locations, such as London or Washington DC, that are used as settings for wildly divergent stories. The only solutions I see is to give them reality designations the way we do characters (a la Krypton (Earth-One), Krypton (Earth-Prime), Krypton (Earth-Two) and Krypton (New Earth)), or to treat them as one meta-location for Location Appearances and write up the articles with separate sections for the major variations, the way Mars (Planet) is evolving. I see pros and cons to either solution, so further discussion is probably needed. (Probably somewhere more centrally located than my talk page, at that, since it has such far-reaching implications.)


 * And Billy, you shouldn't hesitate to jump in on these discussions. We each have a different perspective and each brings a piece of the solution. The Paradox 23:05, 13 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Re: Locations, on Marvel, we've done it both ways too. Mostly, people don't want to write location articles period, let alone two different location articles that are basically identical.  My instinct on this one is counter to our usual modus operandi.  Locations are hardly interesting or wildly important articles, so I think unless there are enough differences between the mainstream continuity and the location in question, the two locations should be in one 'meta-location' article.  I don't think it's all that critical to correct the situations where this isn't the way we're doing it right now, but for the future, it's how I think it makes the most sense.  Like the Daily Planet, it's a widely known location with different versions of it in probably every continuity here, but how different is one version from another?  To me, it makes the most sense to have one 'Daily Planet' location article, with notible alternates, (or possibly all alternates) having their own sections somewhere on the page.  Just my dos centavos.
 * &mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 14:44, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Wow. Who woulda thunk that a loser like Kamandi would ever spark such a spirited discussion? lol. I like The Paradox's idea of naming the races "Rats (Earth-AD)" and so forth. It's simple, accurate and all-inclusive without gender bias.


 * As far as Command D is concerned, I feel we should make this as a Meta-Location with sub-sections for the different realities (as suggested above). While the location is central to the Kamandi mythos, there's not really a lot of information about it out there, and I can't really justify having multiple pages for such a minor locale.


 * Oh, User:The Paradox, when you get a chance, can you also weigh in on this? Billy and I would like to pull the trigger on this one, but I'd also like your input as well. --Brian Kurtz 19:36, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm all for meta-locations. Btw, Paradox, your talk page is getting kind of long. Maybe time to archive some of it?
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 20:58, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Done. The Paradox 21:17, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


 * If it's not too late, I agree that a single page is best at this stage.
 * Roygbiv666 12:17, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Organizing Templates
Just a tip, especially on the See Also Templates, you sort of have to be careful about spacing or else it gets weird on the pages. I try to avoid including a line jump at the end, I just go straight into the without any other spacing because otherwise sometimes when you include multiple templates in a list, there's like this irremovable built in gap between them. I haven't noticed any problems yet, if I do I'll tell you, I'm just giving you a heads up.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 14:27, 16 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads-up. I hadn't thought about multiple See Also templates. The Paradox 14:30, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

They're really useful for crossovers. For example, Lobo Annual 1 uses both Lobo RR and Bloodlines RR. (I like the tl thing btw, it's nifty.)
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 14:35, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Template Organization
Just as an fyi, when a page is added to a category, it's sorted there by it's pagename by default. So while there's good reason to add "| ", since the extra space at the front will put that page before all the other pages in the category, adding "|" doesn't do anything. Just so you know. No reason to do extra work that is already done for you. :)

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 09:17, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It's useful for templates though, right? It prevents everything from being filed underneath T.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 13:50, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * That's what I thought, Billy. Category:Templates and it's subs would seem to bear that out as well. Thanks for info, though, Nathan. The Paradox 19:55, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I was under the impression that Namespaces were skipped, my mistake. How silly they're not.  I know custom ones like Comics: aren't skipped, but I was thinking the standards worked that way.  How very silly. ;)
 * &mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 15:47, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Template:Plagerism
that should actually be "Plagiarism".


 * I knew that didn't look right the moment I hit save - thanks. The Paradox 02:21, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course now it's not letting me correct it for some reason. Would you move it again and delete the bad spelling? The Paradox 02:25, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, there's already a "Template:Plagiarism" that's for articles with plagiarized material. The "Template:Plag" is for users who put up plagiarized pages. What would you like to do?
 * Roygbiv666 02:51, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


 * How about Template:Plagiarism Warning? I'm going for something that's self-explanatory and easy to remember. The Paradox 03:33, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

FYI
I know how much time you spend in the Template Required category, so I thought I would give you a heads up, I just incorporated it into the To-Do List on the Main Page.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 00:47, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Oooh, excellent! And I've been keeping my eye open for that bit of code, too. The Paradox 01:03, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Test
Did you need some help with this, buddy ol pal? :)

I did leave the image automation out of the equation for a couple of reasons, one being the ability to change the size easily depending on the shape of the image you're using without the use of an extra field.

I also noticed you're missing a or |} somewhere, making the sidebar jump up over the site logo. It's a very common mistake that all template writers or editors make. I didn't know if you knew what the problem was. ;)

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 21:29, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * As a matter of fact I would; I just hadn't gotten around to asking you yet. :) I've got some sample data set up at User:The Paradox/For Any Admin.


 * I was thinking that the uniformity of template structure outweighed the possibility of a bad image being the only option for the main iteration of a character. Quality and selection of images is one of the strengths of this site, IMNSHO. It's not that important, I guess, just a source of perpetual frustration when I expect Disambig to act like the other page templates that use images. The Paradox 21:40, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It's a very good point. And my older arguments for making it behave the way it does illude me at the moment.  How about if I make it work for both ways?
 * &mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 22:15, 31 October 2008 (UTC)


 * If you wish. It would be enlightening to see the syntax for that. Could you perhaps fix the version I've got there first, though, so I can see exactly what fiddly bits I missed? The Paradox 22:20, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

All-American Comics Vol 1 16
Check it out, for some reason, your comic template mod isn't working right there. Or is it? I can't figure it out.

Just a FYI. :)

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 02:08, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not seeing it. What exactly do you think isn't working? If you mean the Summary Needed tag, the one on that page is there manually (to cover the other stories). Was it something else? The Paradox 02:34, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, I'm dumb. I didn't see it manually added.  Never mind me, I'm getting old. :)
 * &mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 20:52, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Matthew Ryder
I'm trying to puzzle out this reality designation conundrum. Right now, we have Waverider listed as Matthew Ryder (New Earth). However, that's inaccurate. The New Earth timeline does have a Matthew Ryder, but he doesn't become Waverider. He joins the Linear Men, but as a human. Waverider is an alternate Matthew Ryder from an alternate now seven-year-old future, as seen in Armageddon 2001. God, I hate alternate timelines. They don't even have the decency to... urgh, anyway, I would assume that Matthew Ryder (New Earth) should instead be moved to the Matthew Ryder of the New Earth that actually happened. But where does that leave Waverider? He needs a new designation. Nathan has previously on the forums suggested Monarch's 2001, i.e. "Matthew Ryder (Monarch's 2001)". I was wondering what your opinion was on the matter.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 00:05, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * As a general guideline, I tend to treat Possible Futures as separate Realities and to refer to them by their Storyline names (Titans Tomorrow, Super-Sons, DC One Million, Futuresmiths, etc.) In the case of Waverider, that would place him as Matthew Ryder (Armageddon 2001). After all, why make up a new designation when one already exists that we can plug into? The Paradox 00:21, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Very well. I just tagged the suggested move on the Waverider page. I suppose I'll have to go through WhatLinksHere for Waverider after the move to clear things up, and then convert the Matthew Ryder redirect to a character page.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 00:34, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Legioncongruity
I thought it would be a good idea to not have our entire reality-shattering discussion about the Legion of Super-Heroes on the talk page for some random comic. So I started up a discussion on the forums here, just to get the ball rolling.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 00:42, 6 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Good idea, although I'ven never been able to log onto the forums. The Paradox 00:45, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * And of course, as soon as I mention it, I'm suddenly able to log on after a week of unsuccessfully trying. The Paradox 00:48, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Minor Team Template
I saw your comment on Axis America - I've been thinking we should have a minor team template for a while (also, a minor Location one too). What about:

Team Template:
 * OfficialName           = OFFICIAL TEAM NAME
 * First                  = FIRST APPEARANCE
 * Status                 = ACTIVE OR DEFUNCT
 * Identity               = SECRET OR PUBLIC
 * Alignment              = GOOD, BAD OR NEUTRAL
 * Universe               = UNIVERSE / REALITY
 * HistoryText            = HISTORY OF TEAM
 * Notes                  = NOTES
 * Trivia                 = TRIVIA
 * Links                  = LINKS AND REFERENCES

Location Template:
 * OfficialName           = OFFICIAL NAME
 * Universe               = UNIVERSE / REALITY
 * First                  = FIRST APPEARANCE
 * HistoryText            = HISTORY OF LOCATION
 * Notes                  = NOTES
 * Trivia                 = TRIVIA
 * Links                  = LINKS AND REFERENCES

on a general note, in the normal Location Template, could it autocategorize the page based on the last field filled in (Galaxy, Solar System, Planet, etc.) so if you fill in Planet, but don't go any further, it autocategorizes it as a Planet? Roygbiv666 13:07, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * For the Minor Team, if you guys are going ahead with this, make sure you add a creators field. I hate it when that thing gets dropped.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 13:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Oy, me and my hasty comments. What if we just hide a bunch more empty fields, move the memberships into the body, and make them look like minor templates? I'm not sure my skills are up to creating a new template yet, Nathan hasn't answered my last two requests for assistance, and Help for template work and admins is a joke around here. Nevertheless, I'll try to devote a couple of days in the next week exclusively to template work and see if I can hammer out both the Publishing History template and revised Team & Location templates. The Paradox 03:21, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Just as a general thing about the Team Templates btw, and I bring this up here because you know the template better than I do, but currently the Team Template will not acknowledge more than two universes. This shows up at Fatal Five. Is it worth updating the template, or should we split the article?
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 01:17, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I had noticed that with Fatal Five, then got sidetracked when I discovered Fatal Five (Pre-Zero Hour) already exists. We should probably break these up, if only to conform with the LSH precedent for future teams.


 * As a general thing, I think that depends on how we handle multiversal incarnations of teams. In most cases so far, it's been pretty consistent that there's one article, no Reality designation, and a pre-COIE and New Earth designation, so only having two was fine. If variants are given a Reality designation to set them apart from New Earth manifestations, ie Metal Men (Earth-9), then we should be able to continue to get away with two. The Paradox 01:32, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's because I just made Fatal Five (Pre-Zero Hour) the other day. I figured I should populate the sub-pages before turning it into a disambig. Especially because I'm still trying to work out exactly what the legit names are for all of the Post-Zero Hour characters, and whether they've gone by anything other than their primary aliases. The main purpose I see in distinguishing the team pages is to clarify individual membership rather than have the Current Members section lead you to Five different disambigs.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 01:44, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Fantasti-Bot

 * 1) Yes.  Very easy to do.  However should it be removing the 'stub tags' as well?  Otherwise, we end up with this.
 * 2) Yes.  I have it running right now.
 * 3) Yes.  I originally wrote the bot to use the Category:Move Category as it's primary hunting grounds, and to use the regular Move tag as the name to move the page to.  As far as I know, there should be no problem changing either of these, if you so desired.  The easiest way that I know of would be to change the pages in the regular move category that aren't ready to be moved to a different tag, rather than the ones that are.  Just being able to run the bot through without having to worry if the page is ready or not would be majorly helpful. :)  I'll get those two moved now.

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 23:27, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I just realized, after deleting the move tags on all the talk pages listed in the move category, that they may have actually been there for a reason. (The bot doesn't need these, and got confused when trying to process the Antimatter guy since there was text on both the talk pages already).  Any reason we needed those?
 * &mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 23:38, 10 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Not really. I just threw those on the talk pages to replace discussions that had been moved. Now that the revised process is under way, I'll throw together a talk page-specific template (I know, I've got about four new templates pending already).


 * As for the Move template and the bot, I wanted to use the more likely name for editors and the more obscure one as the bot "hunting grounds," primarily so editors don't have to search for the correct tag. "Move" is pretty basic. Do you have a suggested name for a new template for not-ready-to-be-moved-yet?


 * And I'm personally fine with some articles having both the stub and template required tag, 'cause the latter will only be around until the article is templated but the stub could last for years. Sad, but true. The Paradox 23:52, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Creators Needed
I think this category is a really cool idea, so I was going through it, but there's something weird. There are at least a couple of things in the category that shouldn't be. See Ben Boxer, King Snake and The Riddler.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 13:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Ouch. I wasn't really intending on creating the category until I knew that it was working correctly - it should be a simple matter, but I had a feeling the multiple variables might have unintended consequences. I'm getting way too big a list of Template work to do (much of which exceeds my understanding), so we may have to revert this one until my learning curve catches up or Nathan has the will to implement it properly. The Paradox 18:09, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Guy Gardner
was way behind so i copied and pasted it from the wiki source (as i don't read green latern myself) made some adjustments to the new text but could need some improving...

but my question is this is the discussion thing there normal it is full of history?


 * That is an old way of tracking text copied from Wikipedia. We don't do that any longer, but there's really no reason to remove it either. The Paradox 21:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Can you check out the comic template?
Can you check out the comic template when you get a chance? It's doing some weird things with the character lists. It's auto-generating categories with compressed names at the bottom of some pages. Here's a good example of what I mean. Look at the bottom where the categories are. Thanks! --Brian Kurtz 20:55, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * What did Nate do?!? :D
 * Yeah, I'm on it. It looks like a space got dropped somewhere; hopefully it won't be that difficult to locate. The Paradox 21:07, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * We just added a new task category for comics that use the Cast field. So that we can go through and update them, and eventually just delete that part of the comic template altogether.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 21:11, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * We seem to be adding tasks faster than we're accomplishing them.
 * Could somebody toss me a couple more examples of bad Comic Template output? I've pretty much narrowed it down, but need a larger sampling to confirm. The Paradox 21:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Here's another one. Looks like quite a number of Action Comics issues from this era are effected. Just at a glance. --Brian Kurtz 21:39, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * In both examples so far, it's only the third story that is impacted... is that your observation? The Paradox 21:48, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh! And also, we just altered the autocategorizing to include more possible people in the 1st story, and cutting back from like the 3rd and 4th. That could explain it. Sometimes, I just don't think. It probably has something to do with that.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 21:52, 17 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It must. I've narrowed it down to this edit. If I can find an issue with four stories, that will confirm it. Then it's just finding the typo in Cast1. The Paradox 22:03, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Yup, it was some stray code that slipped in when Nate was piecing together the new Cast1. Should be all fixed now. The Paradox 22:34, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Paradox
I picked up (Armageddon 2001), and there was this nutso villain calling himself Paradox. He could speed up or slow down portions of time at will, allowing him to suddenly age things, or for example speed up Chunk's metabolism so that he became scrawny. He also had two separate personalities, both of which were psychotic. Anyway, the point is, it made me think of you.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 14:22, 18 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Of course it did. :D And there are those amongst my friends (and doctors) who would argue that the similarities go beyond just the name. Of course, I doubt that I could ever look that good in spandex, but I do love the boots. Thank you. The Paradox 18:54, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome
Thanks for the greeting. I'm a sysop over on 90210pedia, so I'm always glad to explore other wikias, meet new people on them, and help out if I can. Cheers. James26 02:58, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Publication History Template
Nice work on the template. I was thinking more of a free-form format (!?) so the writer could put things in whatever logical order they wanted (mainly by year/Age). For instance, I think that doing a strictly chronological (year by year) history and comparing the comic version of the character with the concurrent media version (movie, tv, whatever) might be interesting - if it's split up into the sections you have, it's a bit harder. That said, one could always refer to the relevent section. So, if the "History" section maintains your "Serials", "Movies", "TV" etc. that could work. I think the default image size is a bit big, I'd probably go with either an optional ImageSize and/or set the default to the same as the Comic template for consistency.

Do you think we could/should have a Publication History for each "Age" of comics - Golden, Silver, etc.? That way, people could do a brief overview of those periods referencing realworld stuff - comics, movies, serials, impact, writers, etc.?

Anyway, you're doing a great job with the Database. I'm sort of losing interest somewhat, especially in making decisions (too many of those at work!), but I'll try to give my input if you want it.

Thanks; Roygbiv666 14:00, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I've reduced the default size of the image to 250px and added a generic "History" section. One can now use any combination of the History sections that seem appropriate for the character. I'm not clear on what you mean by a PubHist for each Age. Are you referring to a different template for each, or somehow breaking this one into Golden, Silver and Modern subsections? And thanks for the kind words regarding my work here. The Paradox 20:32, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * By "PubHist for each Age" I was just wondering if you thought we should have articles for Golden Age, Silver Age, etc. using this template instead of ... whatever it is we have now? It would duplicate Wikipedia (what doesn't), but it would be focused on DC Comics' PubHist.
 * Roygbiv666 21:20, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I guess I'm more inclined to keep it all together until it grows to large for a single article (again, like Wikipedia). While those of us who are fans and collectors may view these as different characters, to most of the world it's all just one Superman (or Batman or Wonder Woman) with minor differences. The Paradox 21:26, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Let's try again ... do you think we should have this article use the Publication history template? Should it be more than just a Glossary page?
 * Roygbiv666 22:48, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, I see what you mean now. I was getting hung up on the word "Character," which you never actully used in this context. Forgive my obtuseness. Yes, that is an excellent idea; I like the idea of providing a larger context in which to view the medium. The Paradox 23:04, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Heads up. ..
Hey there,

Just as an fyi, the noinclude tags don't work on the site notice, I still was getting a blank one until I changed it. Good idea to keep the Notice template on there though, wouldn't want to misplace that one. :)

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 03:21, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for catching that. I think having a record of past notices is a good thing, the way we track previous Featured articles. If nothing else, it gives us a jumping off point for future ones. The Paradox 03:32, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

DC Fan Fiction
Hey guys,

Just a general message for you big-time DC Admins, the founder of DC Fan Fiction wants you to know that if you run into any users who would like to create their own DC characters or comics and stuff, you're more than welcome to point them to the DC Fan Fiction wiki. (They're not having much luck generating new contributors). Didn't know if you guys knew about this option, so I'm putting it out here.

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 15:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

project:peacemaker incident
Yeah sorry i thought noting where the source game from would have been enough.. like with the post and copy from wikipedia (guy gardner)

It really came as a suprise and it frighted me so i removed the copied part and as i have no idea who the real writer of the blog was well i send a message to the myspace thing even joined the darn thing today.

for the record i wasN'T claiming the writing as my own if i would have i never gave that link wouldn't i?

Once again i am sorry but it makes me understand why so many histories are empty. waiting for the reply right now but he hasn't been on myspace for a few months right now.

--Ouroborosi 21:44, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * No problem (and no reason to be frightened). I just threw that up as a reminder that it had to be changed at some point.


 * The difference between Wikipedia and the MySpace site is the licensing - MySpace is copyrighted, as seen by the little c in a circle at the bottom of their pages, whereas WP and a lot of other wikis are GFDL or equivalent. And yeah, you would have been claiming the writing as your own if you hadn't included a link. Personally, I'm fine with the text and the warning being left there for a short bit as you wait to hear back from the MySpace person. If they really care enough to notice it's copied here, they'll probably care enough to say yes or no to your request. The Paradox 21:54, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

just added the text back as i had the impression i had to remove the text ASP So the orginal author can fully see my crimes or so --Ouroborosi 21:56, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Fan Art stuff
I've noticed that we've been depricating the fan art gallery options from the character template (and thank Zod for that! Always seemd a bit excessive for something that rarely gets created). On that note, could you maybe tweak the gallery template so that it doesn't generate the Fan Art gallery option under the "See Also" section? (Whenever you get a chance; no rush) I tried doing it myself, but I messed it up.

Oh... and some time back, I made a platoon of empty fan art gallery pages in my efforts to eradicate the Fan Art Needed task from character pages. Also to help out some people who were having trouble formatting gallery pages. Anywho... if you see any of these empty fan art pages, feel free to blast them out of the water. They can always be recreated later once we have some content. Thanks! --Brian Kurtz 13:18, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Gladly! I'm sure you know my opinion of empty pages by now and it's nice to have your blessing. ;)
 * I don't think I've ever bothered knowing the coding well enough to type it from scratch either; I just copy it from somewhere else and just change the variables as needed. Sooo much easier. I'll take care of it right now. The Paradox 13:28, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. I checked Bruce Wayne (New Earth)/Gallery and Supergirl/Gallery as test pages. I'm not sure we have any Fan Art galleries for locations, items, etc., so I couldn't really verify that it worked for those as well, but there's no reason to think it'll behave any differently. Let me know if you run across any anomalies. The Paradox 14:16, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Will do. Thanks! --Brian Kurtz 14:33, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Invisibility
Just a heads up, in case you never thought of it this way, but the reason we had a lot of seemingly empty fields show up for any given page was to show users that there is stuff still needed that they can add. Like the Notes and Trivia sections, for example, in the past, we had them always showing up but with some kind of 'fill me in' message so that people would see that the page isn't complete and contribute.

Of course, there's absolutely nothing wrong with making a lot of things not show up and attempting to reduce the clutter of a page, but I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the reason they weren't that way previously. So it's just something to keep in mind for the future. (Though you may not even agree with it). :)

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 14:49, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * It is bouncing around in the back of my mind, and occasionally gives me a headache. Right now I'm trying to achieve a balance between prodding editors to add content (hence the proliferation of Expand, Incomplete and Update tags) and hiding the fields that are least likely to be used anyway - Notes and Trivia for Items and Vehicles (too many of which don't have any content), Fan Art (by request, and which seems to be rather unpopular all around), pages that are being phased out (Appearances), etc. Until we get more complete character and comic pages I'd rather steer people towards adding Histories and Summaries first, then make empty trivia and fan art pages more visible, but that may just be me. If at any point you think that balance is out of whack, by all means say something or make an adjustment. The Paradox 15:20, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * No, I generally agree with all the changes you're making. If you wouldn't mind bringing this stuff up on the forums too, so that the Marvel editors will get the same ideas and start following suit.  Unfortunately I just don't have enough time to copy all the changes from here over there anymore.  Keep up the great work! :)
 * &mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 15:36, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

While we're on the subject, I'm just going to bring back out my old idea about making some of the powers fields invisible if they aren't filled in. Even for characters who we don't have any powers information on, that part of the article still takes up like half of the table of contents. That way, for characters who specifically don't have powers, we can write up "Batman does not have any metahuman abilities" and it'll still show up on the page, but it would get rid of clutter where we don't have content.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 16:06, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Half done. I hid Strength and Weaknesses, since those seem to be empty more often than not. I left Powers because they either have 'em or they don't - the default text works if they don't, they prompt is good if it's blank and shouldn't be. Abilities is kinda the human side of powers (although I'd like to see it renamed Skills); you got 'em or you don't. On the same note, I think most of the Paraphernalia could be hidden also since a majority of characters don't use those fields. The Paradox 16:40, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes Vol 1
Were I to purchase some of these back issues and upload their content, do you know which Superboy I would be using? I tried to figure it out myself, but now I've had to spend all morning piecing my brain back together after it exploded. I think I should use Kal-El (Pocket Universe), but I just want some verification. I defer to your superior experience.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 19:10, 29 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The PU Superboy (yes, I used that intentionally) didn't show up until post-Crisis, so anything prior to that is Superboy (Earth-One). I think it would just be too confusing to try to determine which stories had alternate players in the post-COIE retcons, especially with the E-One Supergirl occasionally in the original mix and then that whole Glorithverse retcon thing that substituted Valor and Laurel Gand for the House of El cousins. Perhaps make a note, as I've seen done with Fel Andar (New Earth) and Sharon Parker when they replaced Katar and Sheyara Hol, that a retcon has impacted the cast list in these stories. The Paradox 20:48, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Editing problems
Earlier this morning, I was trying to edit Superman's page, and I kept getting an "Internet explorer error" message. I've been able to edit on Wookieepedia without issue, so I doubt that it's some new problem our "benevolent" staff over at Wikia have created. There may be something wrong with the site itself. -- SFH 23:39, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Earth-One

 * 1) REDIRECT [[

Insert text]]

Didn't think it was needed since there's no Earth-One anymore, and personally, I think it just confuse the person that is seeking information. I probably put that in the notes section saying something like, "This character was created on Earth-One before the events of Crisis on Infinite Earths."

DC Database:Quality Assessment
Well... here it is. It's pretty much just a paraphrased copy from my user page. Play with it all ya like! I'm curious to see what this could develop into. --Brian Kurtz 16:46, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Comic List
You should probably add the comic list template to the editing buttons if you want people to use the full thing. I know that would make at least me a lot more likely to embrace the change on this one. Also, are you going to integrate Infobox Title? Because now would be a good time for that. I know you have a lot on your plate right now, but I'm bringing this up because these things would be more likely to gain help from people like me on your projects.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 02:07, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I hadn't thought about adding a button, but that is a fabulous idea. Once I get the template all spiffied up...
 * I'm just now starting to integrate the infobox. It had, unfortunately, dropped off my radar for a while. Hopefully I'll be done in a few hours, if Wikia doesn't keep giving me error messages. The Paradox 03:40, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

DAMN THOSE ERROR MESSAGES! I had to leave four tabs of new article open for an hour today because I couldn't edit any of them.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 04:46, 4 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, it took a few days, but I think the Infobox is now up and running. Check it out. The Paradox 02:22, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It looks pretty sweet. I like it a lot. Definitely nicer than mine. I'm glad the two are finally merged. If you'll add it to the toolbar (i don't know how), I'll go around and replace all of my old ones.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 03:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


 * There's a couple more things I want to add before rolling it out completely. Just hang on a little while longer... The Paradox 06:02, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Is there a way for us to move the Logo below the Header, without ending up with that ugly thing that happens when the centralization is offset by the infobox?
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 03:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Done. While your attention is on the Comic Lists, would you mind templating a few of them at random (or pick a letter) to get a feel for what the button text should include? I'm not sure if stuff like trades or annuals should be part of the standard options and another opinion would be appreciated. The Paradox 03:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I would say Yes, they should. Because usually, the only people who actually bother making comic lists are people who already have a firm grip on site procedure. If, for example, there are no Specials or Annuals on an already finished title, we could erase the field, but otherwise I think we should stick with pretty extensive Standard Options. If you're worried about things like people misusing fields, then include a small explanation, i.e. So, I would say make the standard options as extensive as possible, especially while we're still getting used to the new template. The only thing I really don't think we should include is any manual overrides. Those should be handled... well, manually. Stick all of the regular options in as standard, and if any field is seriously a problem we can take it out when and if.
 * Type =
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 22:58, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

The Titans
Hi Paradox sorry about forgeting to adding the license and image templetes to those images on The Titans I haven't loaded images in a while and I forget that DC Database is the only site that has that image uploading system that gives you a list of many different license to add to the images. Oh I was wondering why you changed the creator for The Titans team because I understand if those are the creators for the Teen Titans team but those creators were the one for The Titans team that was recently created. I was just wondering why you made that change I was curious. Well thanks for the image reminder that will help me remember oh and I want to say congraduations on becoming a new admin to the DC Databse nice job well done. Talk to you later.

From Rod12


 * Not a problem; it was just a friendly reminder, more about the names than the templates. I personally hate the Upload interface here - it's just not very user-friendly.


 * I changed the creators because the latest Titans team is just a continuation of the original Teen Titans. The members are the virtually the same and all the latest talent has really done is to give them a new comic book. The original concept hasn't changed. The Paradox 06:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

The artist for The Titans are Ian Churchill, Norm Rapmund, Joe Benitez and Victor Llamas. Churchill and Rapmund did the first issue and the second issue was done by Benitez and Llamas and they did a total of two issue then they were replace by Howard Porter who is currently working on the series. Hope I helped answer your question and I do agree with you the art work dose stink but I was trying to find images with the current Titans Roster.

From Rod12


 * Thanks for the info on the artists. They're just way too... cartoony for me. The Paradox 06:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Yea thats probably the best way I think you can describe those artists and the comic book work they do.

From Rod12


 * The new Titans series? I tried to stomach it, but blegh. And I'm one of the people who actually likes Judd Winick.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 03:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


 * As a devout fan of all things Titans, I find myself pretty disappointed in both titles these days. And what was with Donna Troy's crappy costume and big Jersey-girl hair from the first few issues? Ugh! Don't event get me started on the Teen Titans title. --Brian Kurtz 03:56, 9 December 2008 (UTC)\

Hey, hate to cut in, but, which one are you guys talking about. Because I'm reading one that is by Geoff Johns, and it's pretty good. Just Wondering.

DCaddict 19:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)DCaddict♥

Paraphernalia
Stupid lousy dumb field. Anyway, I was uploading a bunch of accumulated information from backup features on Hardware, and I thought you would want to take a look at it, because it's acting up.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 03:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I've tweaked it a bit. I still can't figure out where the leading space is coming from, but at least now it bullets properly. The Paradox 06:06, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Works well enough for now. Also, I half-accidentally reverted your edit on Hardware. I decided I shouldn't, and then my hand slipped and it was a one-click action. But I'm holding off on labeling the Milestone characters as "Original Publisher" because Milestone has always been owned by DC. Do you think I should go around and change them?
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 06:37, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It is kinda redundant with the Dakotaverse Characters category, I guess. The Paradox 06:51, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

You sound reluctant. I honestly don't care either way, I really do mean my hand slipped.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 06:54, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


 * No, just still dazed from all that Comic List coding. First time I've created an Infobox from scratch. I should just call it a day and go have a drink and a hot bath. :) The Paradox 06:58, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Use bubbles.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 07:04, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Comic List
Ah, what you're doing is asking if the Captital letter 'A' is in the FULL pagename, and since 'A' is in "Justice League of America", that's what you get. What you really want is the first letter of the pagename, which would be this:

Sub asks for a specific part of a string, in this case, the characters between spot 0 and spot 1. (Which is always the first letter). Note that I used PAGENAME instead of FULLPAGENAME, because with PAGENAME on your User talk page (here), you'll get, while if you use FULLPAGENAME, you'll get. (Because "User talk" is the Namespace).

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 03:08, 9 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Excellent. That seems to have fixed it. The Paradox 06:07, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Featured Articles
Discussion about it on the forums. Your input would be appreciated. I want this one wrapped up by tomorrow, as I plan on implementing by tomorrow.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 00:21, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, godz, I haven't even looked at the forums for a few days. Give me some time to formulate a response. The Paradox 00:28, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

i went overboard
Bottom Feeder (New Earth)

on his Quotes

but to me there to silly not to include hope this is okay --Ouroborosi 22:56, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I know this was directed at The Paradox, but for my two cents -- the more quotes the better! --Brian Kurtz 22:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed - I think the DC Database will survive :D The Paradox 23:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Ambush Bug
Just a heads-up, have you seen this site? It's a great reference (even if when I sent them a picture, the guy didn't credit me or even thank me in a responding email but still used it anyway), and I noticed you were doing some Ambush Bug work. Also, I think his Showcase Presents is coming out in like... March.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 21:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Neat. You really should grab this image for your Faces of Eeeeeeevil series. (Sorry, couldn't resist.) The Paradox 21:44, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, and Ambush Bug and Dumb Bunny? Couldn't happen to a better guy. The Paradox 21:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

You were right, that cover was a virgin, my bad. Also, the link didn't work for me, but do you mean this bad boy? I love this image. Of course it's in there. Right next to this little gem. And I just uploaded the Dumb Bunny picture. I figure I'm going to start scanning in the Year None non-virgin images all at once when they finish the book.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 21:50, 11 December 2008 (UTC)


 * No prob, it's hard to remember all the little things. I actually meant to put it there my first edit, but got distracted by the whole fill-in-the-template thing. The Paradox 21:59, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Category:Comics:Example
I know I should've said something earlier, but... do we have to double-colon these categories? I feel like this is a weird reinstatement of the Comics: namespace relic, that we've gone out of our way to distance ourselves from. If it's too late, then whatever, and I can't concretely cite reference on Namespace problems here, but I think it would be just as efficient but less weird to have, for example, Category:Comics A instead. If not, oh well. It's not a huge deal. I just... thought we were done using that namespace.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 07:18, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * It would be a six step process for each letter to convert them now that they've been created, a total of 162 separate page loads. Then someone would have to go back and re-save each article in each of the categories to force migration to the new nomenclature, for a few hundred more extra edits. The Paradox 07:38, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Never mind. By the way, I want to apologize if I've been being kind of an ass lately, if it's been apparent. I should be back to snuff soon, I've just been... really pissy lately.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 08:32, 14 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I hadn't noticed, and it's not a problem. We all have those times. The Paradox 08:35, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Your question, and the need to decide what to do with the old comics by title pages, prompted a poll in the forums. The Paradox 19:37, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Comic infobox idea
Hey, how do you feel about adding a "Genre" option to the comic list infobox? Possibilities include, Super-Hero, War, Western, Horror, Mystery, etc. It would have to allow for multiple genres for anthology books like Action and Detective. What do ya think? --Brian Kurtz 17:54, 15 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I've been using the Featured field as a form of that, at least for Category:Western Titles and Category:World War II Titles. I thought about including a genre, but ultimately decided against it because it would become one of those fields that people feel they have to fill in even if they have no idea what the options are or the implications of it. The Paradox 18:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Title Category
Sweet! Glad you dig it. I explained it in your poll on the Comics by Title categories on the forums. Hopefully, it was close to your true intentions. :)

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 01:08, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Paradox, sorry about that. I did not get the message the first time, I didn't even know you could get messages lol.

Can you tell me how to add citations so I can refrence comics, I tried but I seem to come up short?

Thank you.

Paradox, sorry about that. I did not get the message.

Can you tell me how to add citations so I can refrence comics, I tried but I seem to come up short?

Thank you. Govven1 20:24, 16 December 2008 (UTC)Govven1

More Legion Problems
My experience with the Legion pretty much begins at around 1989. I was wondering if you could help me figure out naming conventions on this one, because I wasn't very successful in trying to find a concrete version of the back story. To my knowledge, the Post-Zero Hour one was always a chick, so her page is okay. Also, for some reason, our database only acknowledges her existence, ignoring the original one. I'm trying to figure out how to organize Shvaughn Erin... should we designate the Pre-Zero Hour one as Sean Erin (Pre-Zero Hour) and just pipe all of the links? I'm confused. I don't understand the entire Erin/Arrah relationship. Thank god part of the reason I love the Legion so much is the challenge that they present.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 02:06, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Basic backstory - Pre-Zero Hour (pre-Crisis even), a fem named Shvaughn Erin was an SP officer who formed a romance with Element Lad (Jan Arrah). This disappointed a lot of gay fanboys, who felt that the sensitive, pink-clad E-Lad had a bit of the fey about him. Five Years Later (we really need an article on that), when Giffen and the Beirbaums took over, the 30th Century got hit by the Mordruverse/Glorithverse and eventually we end up with the big reveal that Shvaughn Erin is actually Sean Erin, a young man that was so enamoured of of the sensitive, pink-clad E-Lad that s/he took a gender-changing drug (called Pro-Fem, if memory serves). Jan, bless his little soul, said it doesn't matter, he knew and he loved hir despite the drug, not because of it, and gay fanboys everywhere finally had a glimpse of the hero they always knew was there before having it all yanked away and replaced by a bunch of Archies.


 * As for naming, I'd use Shvaughn Erin (Pre-Zero Hour) and pipe the links for hir non-ProFem form. It's easier, in the long-run, because all but a handful of appearances are of the fem that romanced Jan and I figure if she got into the SP as Shvaughn then there must be some legitimacy to the name. Toward that end I've converted the Shvaughn Erin redirect into a Disambig. Whatever name the article ends up with, there should be a disambig at Shvaughn Erin. The Paradox 04:43, 20 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Gotcha. Shvaughn Erin (Pre-Zero Hour) it is. Thanks for the history, that was very informative.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 05:13, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Alright, here's another one. Who's this Bounty chick I keep reading about, and what's her deal with Dawnstar?
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 01:56, 29 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Bounty is a maleavolent spirit that took possession of Dawnstar sometime during the Five Year gap and had Dawny's wings amputated. She remained in control of the Giffen-parody of Dawny for most of the Five Year Later run, only fleeing when Dawny's body was morally wounded. Kind of a cross between Marvel's Malice and their Mutant Massacre treatment of Angel. The Paradox 03:30, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Bots
Can your bot handle any aspect of merging articles, especially the appearances? I'd like to see the Earth-One and Earth-Two Wonder Woman's Invisible Jet articles combined (and a couple of Legion Cruiser articles) but would like to avoid the basic gruntwork if possible. Oh, and on Comics pages, can it change Related Articles links to Appearance and Quotes pages to the equivalent categories? Phasing those pages out, ya know... The Paradox 03:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Yea, the appearances is easy, all I have to do is run the redirect fixing bot through those specific pages. We could either mark all the categories that need the pages fixed in one big category, or we could just run the bot through the comics and fix them all. Either way.

I believe this same big move would fix those other problems as well, especially if they are currently redirects to the Category pages.

I'll start the bot, and if you see big problems holler at me. I probably won't run it long tonight, but just for a little bit to give you a sampling, and an indication of errors.

Are you able to access the forums? I think they're down again. . . I contacted Jamie, but I think a site notice is in order. ..

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 05:57, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Excellent - I'll let you know if I spot any problems. (You know some day soon I'm going to start asking questions about how to aquire a bot, or at least rent yours from time to time...)
 * I had just left a message for Jaime when I got yours, and I see you've already done the site notice. Thanks. The Paradox 06:09, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No problems so far. I like the Wikia credits thing, but I'm wondering if putting it in the page templates wouldn't be a better long-term solution. That would ensure that all new pages, as well as current ones, carry it. The Paradox 08:17, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah crap, that's a sneaky thing that automatically gets sucked up by the bot. It's not supposed to be there.  I'll have to run the bot back through for those few later on, but I'll tweak the code to keep it out in the future.  Thanks for mentioning it.
 * &mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 14:24, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Also, can we get the bot to omit redirects that include # or Glossary:? Because those actually screw up the appearances. And I keep having to revert those. Also, redirects to categories.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 16:32, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Comic List Autocat
Two problems I wanted to address. First of all, could we add an ifexist to the Featured field? So that it doesn't autocat no matter what you insert in the field, but only when the category already exists. Second of all, autocatting the Comic List into it's own category is causing some minor problems. Namely, with issue count measurement, which operates purely on the category, so we consistently end up with an issue count that's one too high. I was thinking, seeing as Comic Category already links to the article, and the article already links to the category, maybe we don't need to autocat that?
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 03:48, 23 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I actually planned on adding the #ifexist after all the Comic Lists are upgraded, to give us some perspective and idea on what kinds of info people are putting in that field. Things can always be tweaked once that's figured out, so don't worry too much about the redlinks to  Titles at the moment. If you're certain that there's an entry for which we don't want a Titles category, simple wikilinking will override the autocat. See Arsenal Vol 1 for an example.
 * The autocat into it's own category has been removed. I was using to navigate between the category and the list, but as you reminded me, there's already a link to the category in the See Also section. The Paradox 18:19, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Blogs
Hey there, blogs are up, I went with my Batman rant to start, but I think if we try to aim for DC-related content in them (by example, of course), they'll end up the best. I'd rather read your thoughts on the latest comics and characters instead of what you ate for breakfast this morning, but that's just me. We can develop these little thingies any way we'd like. :)

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 05:23, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Re: Aquaman Vol 2 1
Okay, I just double-checked the issues. Aquaman appears in JLA #243, then Aquaman v.2 #1-4, then the 1988 Aquaman Special. I just fixed the link on the page. --Brian Kurtz 17:20, 23 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Done. Just out of curiosity, is Atlantis Chronicles Vol 1 going to be part of your general Aquaman Titles improvement drive? The Paradox 18:42, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Hawkman Problem
I just noticed this. Check out Hawkman Vol 2. Should that be Shadow War of Hawkman Vol 1? Almost every other source I find lists what we have as Hawkman Vol 3 as Vol 2, Hawkman Vol 4 as Vol 3, etc. I'm thinking maybe we should bump Volumes 3-5 down a notch, but... that would be a lot of work. Not just with covers, but with issues and redlinks as well. What do you think?
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 07:11, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it's time to get Nate's attention and have his bot handle it. :) I've been trying not to think about the Shadow War and Hawkworld, actually. The Paradox 10:34, 25 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm trying to give it a personal touch so that nothing else gets overlooked. Also, I appreciate your help a lot, but could I get this one by myself at least for now? I think that two people working on this just gets confusing, and we both end up working on the same things a lot, and generating a whole bunch of edit conflicts.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 17:19, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * As you wish. I was hoping that merely upgrading the Volume pages with which you seemed to be done wouldn't cause conflicts. The Paradox 17:26, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Done.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 23:33, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Stubs
I have a question about something that at one time appeared to be mild creative differences, but now seems to be evolving into something requiring legitimate conformity. Why do you keep on moving Wikipedia tags to the top of the page? I feel like they should be kept as a citation, as they're a stub, and put at the bottom where they are accessible and just as valid, but unobtrusive. Not in front of all of our other content like a banner advertising our laziness. What's your opinion on the matter?
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 23:33, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I only do so when the vast majority of the article is a copy of the Wikipedia one. I do this so that readers who make their way here from Wikipedia are informed, before they get halfway through an article, that what they're reading is more or less a (bad) cut-and-paste of what they read there. As for why? Because when I first started visiting this site I would get so disgusted at that lack of notice. I can't count how many times I came here looking for new/additional info only to realize part way into it that not only was there no new info, what was here was all-too-often the same info or worse, old info stolen from Wikipedia that hadn't been maintained or even transferred well. Having a banner at the bottom of the page is like locking the barn door after the horses are gone, or activating a fire alarm after the building is smoke and ashes. The Paradox 23:49, 27 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I have found your logic acceptable, and will no longer take actions conflicting with your policies.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 23:56, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Problem with Pictures
Those pictures were for my userpage. I just won't mess with images on here anymore. Since it's a problem for you. Sorry.

DCaddict 06:18, 28 December 2008 (UTC)DCaddict

Sure.

DCaddict 06:31, 28 December 2008 (UTC)DCaddict

31st Century
I'm thinking about making some changes to the way we organize our information on the Legion. Currently, things like Pre-Zero Hour and Post-Zero Hour are mere glossary entries, which I think is dumb. I'm planning on turning those articles into full-fledged ones using the reality template. Also, I've been thinking a lot about how to centralize information on all of the Five Years Later stuff. Can you think of anything wrong with using the Concept Template to document it, just titling the article "Five Years Later"? And furthermore, I want to merge Lar Gand (Pre-Zero Hour) and Lar Gand (Glorithverse). Can you think of any reason not to? Their differing origins can be explained from an entirely in-universe perspective. And I'm trying to think of the Glorithverse not as its own separate reality, but as a function of the Possible Future prior to Zero Hour.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 22:03, 28 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Quick thoughts:


 * 1) Yes to upgrading Pre- and Post-Zero Hour
 * 2) Ditto Five Years Later as a concept
 * 3) Poor Lar. I'm gonna have to review the "Valor" title (the few issues I have) before I can form an opinion on that one. Their origins are so radically different, after all, with one having a single adventure in the 20th Century before being exiled to the Phantom Zone, versus the other living out his entire life in the New Earth/post-Crisis 20th Century as Valor before being offed by Glorith and replaced by... which variation? His future self?
 * 4) In it's own way, the Gorithverse is as much a Reality-setting event as COIE or Infinite Crisis - they each restructured time from the point of the Big Bang, leaving a radically different universe. The Glorithverse effects were pretty much limited to Legion titles, however, making it easier to overlook. I've actually been contemplating going the opposite direction, of having the "Lightning Saga" Legion as yet another variation, since their history splits at the time of the first Crisis and the two histories are incompatible. Your recent edit to Laurel Gand (Pre-Zero Hour) kinda set that one in my mind. That would give us Pre-ZH, Glorithverse, Post-ZH, the Waidverse, and Lightning Saga. Oh, plus the DCAU, LSHAU and soon, Smallville versions.

Okay, not so quick. The Paradox 22:27, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Deletions
While doing mass maintenance deletions, it takes about five times as long to check the links for every single one, and turns an already mundane and excruciatingly boring task into something akin to torture. I apologize for deleting first and asking questions later, but I figure in this case it's easier to get all of the broken redirects in one go afterwards, because they have their own specialpage. And as for the redlinks... maybe they do other people, but they don't bother me all that much. I figure we're phasing those sections out anyway.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 07:41, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Don't worry about it - everybody has their own process. Mine is to work on those "mundane and excruciatingly boring" tasks that nobody else seems to want to do. I had finally gotten the Broken Redirects to under 500, from something considerably over 1000, usually be having to update about 4 pages for each. In one day, it's back up to over 600. I guess I have my agenda for the next few days... The Paradox 21:25, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I promise I'll start helping you with the broken redirects as soon as I'm done creating them.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 07:52, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation
While not a part of the naming scheme, I think that (disambiguation) should be introduced. Not in every scenario, but in special cases like that of Lobo and Jason Todd, where we can be reasonably sure that somebody is looking for a popular character who's been around for years, rather than somebody with no background information who appeared for half a panel in an elseworlds one-shot. Although it's been objected to in the past, historically it's been pretty much entirely people on Marvel who've done the objecting, largely because they have a completely differently structured concept of the Multiverse. I was thinking maybe we could begin using it only over here and only in some special cases, where it's particularly merited. While clearly this shouldn't always be the case, for example in places like Green Lantern or Strata, I think this would be a good way for us to be less confusing and much more helpful. I am reminded of the episode of Futurama, where the giant brain asks Are you the Philip J. Fry of Earth, or the Philip J. Fry of Hovering Squidworld #47? Earth, you fat idiot, hurry up.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 07:52, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Yada
We brought this up awhile ago on the forums, but didn't arrive at a conclusion. This is particularly important for DC One Million, but will also be applicable in a couple of years when, say, I dunno, Action Comics goes past 999 issues. Should we include commas in PAGENAMEs when they have four digits or more? This definitely needs to be standardized. But is it, say, Legion of Super-Heroes Vol 4 1000000, or Legion of Super-Heroes Vol 4 1,000,000? Personally, I'm in favor of the latter, but it's not a convention if only one person agrees on it. Thought I'd ask around.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 04:27, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Thus far all of the DC One Million issues I've seen do not use commas; Resurrection Man 1000000, Action Comics Vol 1 1000000, Superboy Vol 4 1000000, etc. Redirects would be prudent, however, given the lack of standardization in the real world. The Paradox 06:50, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

One Shots and Staff
I've noticed you making changes to the Staff one, but I didn't look too closely, because I pretty much hate that template. The layout is fine, but there are way too many variables for any given Staff member, and it drives me nutzo. Is he a writer? penciler? cover artist? Does he go by Bob or Rob or Robert or Bobby? Ugh, I hate it. What did you add over there?

I think I looked at One Shots briefly, because I don't remember it all that well. I think because I can't think of a great way to handle the One-Shot area of comics, but none of the solutions we've tried has ever sit well with me. I do hope that the new system works better than previous, and I'm excited to see and play with the results! :)

And yea, it's more work than I thought it would be, especially since my bot at work is on the fritz. I've spent some time writing hotkeys to do the same thing, but it's a slow process. . . :(

&mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 22:29, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The Staff template still needs a lot of work on the names/pseudonyms bits, I agree. What I've done so far is more along the lines of setting up autocats for Employers, adding date of death fields and autocatting the birth and death dates by month and year. Eventually each Year category can have subcats for Comic Debuts, One Shots, Last Issues, Staff Births and Deaths, etc. Throw some DPL at them and we have a new monthly feature for the Main Page.


 * The OneShot basically automates the categorizing into the comics by letter cats, One Shots, and has space for up to six variables that become One Shot categories. Superman's Christmas Adventure Vol 1 1, for example, is autocatted into Category:1940 One Shots, Category:Superman One Shots and Category:Holiday One Shots (most of which haven't been created yet, although there's content). The Paradox 22:45, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * How do you feel about putting the Template:OneShot stuff into the comic template? Say we make a field, "OneShot", and the six variables can be separated by semi-colons.  I'm gonna try it and show you an example. :)
 * &mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 23:04, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * So is using the test field, and I think I'm going to try to change some other stuff based on it being a one shot too.  (Like no previous/next field, and the name of the comic just being the name of the book, and not the Vol 1 #1 nonsense).  We'll see how it turns out. :)
 * &mdash; Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk &bull; contribs &bull; email) 23:10, 5 January 2009 (UTC)