Talk:Kal-El (New Earth)

Problems
This is a very poor summary of the Superman comics. There is little to no distinction between the Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis characters. Each has a different history and here they seem mixed in with one another. (unsigned by Bcardarella)


 * While we always welcome critizism and suggestions, this database is freely editable by all. We would really appreciate your expertise if you could re-organize the article and add what missing information you have!
 * Welcome to the DC Database Project!
 * --Jamie 21:53, 7 March 2006 (Eastern Standard Time)

Will do

Soulvision and Vegetariansim
It's rare for me to leave my own comments on these pages, but I feel compelled to do so in a minor way, given how many hours I've spent dedicated to the Man of Steel's page. I dislike the decision to change Clark into a vegetarian. I think this is a perfect example of how a writer can be out of touch with the subject manner. Clark grew up on a farm--a farm with livestock. I have met many farmers who grew up and worked under such conditions, but I have never met a single one who was a vegetarian. Bear in mind, these are the people who watch chicks hatch out of eggs, grow up, and then proceed to cut the heads off said chickens. These are the people who help birth calves and then slaughter them later. Farmers are perfectly capable of looking a cow in the eyes in the afternoon and then eating a Rib-eye for dinner that night. Of course, Waid tied it to his decision to give Clark "soulvision." I'm actually torn over this. Personally, I do believe in such things as God and souls, but on the other hand, I think that it was not necessary to give Superman an extra power that is in some ways redundant--he can HEAR a person's breath go out, or their heart stop for pete's sake. --Duoraven December 21, 2006


 * I agree with you that often writers try and capture the 'zeitgeist' and incorporate it into popular heroes of the time. I also agree this is usually a gimmick and mostly shallow. With that said, pretty much all of the 'popular' characters got that way because the reader can easily identitify with one aspect or another. While making him a vegan might lose 100 readers, it might invite 1000 new (vegan) ones. It is a risk that hopefully DC has calculated.
 * Just my take on it.
 * --Jamie 21:29, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * As of Action Comics 850, Kal-El is no longer a vegetarian and is back to eating Beef Wellington as his favorite food so how much of the structure of the character from Birthright remains unsure at this time. Though that part of him being near lightspeed and capable of infinite power is definitely NOT correct.  Though some writers will probably try to adapt that as part of the main character  --Kal-l-fan 08 Jun 2007


 * Yep. Looks like Clark is back to eating meat, so I'm guessing the vegetarianism and having "soul vision" thing is no longer in.
 * --Cluebert 11:34, 15 Jan 2008 (UTC)

Hoping to improve this article a little
I relocated the publishing history and Birthright info to the Superman disambig page. That should (hopefully) keep all of the out-of-universe stuff out of this main history section. I also reformatted Superman: Birthright and included the relative info there as well. See the history file for this page however for full authorship credit.

I'm going to reformat the main page with the template, and hopefully it will yield a sleeker looking article. I realize this may seem kind of rash at first, but if anyone has any strong objections, we can always revert any edits at a later time. --Brian Kurtz 02:20, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Superman Family
I think we should do a Superman Family article what do you think? -- Awar 00:40, 8 June 2007 (UTC).
 * No offense but what "Superman Family"? The original Superman Family included many characters who are no longer interacting in that way that the original book of the same name had and would be missing the biggest element Kal-L and his wife Lois Lane-Kent along with all the supplementary characters.  Unless you are basically going to limit the inclusion to just what SEEMS to be the return of Superman's interaction with Supergirl, there is no real reason to include it.--Kal-l-fan 08 Jun 2007
 * I mean like what was done with the Batman Family, I dont mean like the EL family line! -- Awar 04:24, 8 June 2007 (UTC).
 * I understood that and again the book called the Superman family was inclusive of Kal-L and Lois-Lane Kent, Superboy, Jimmy Olsen as Elongated Lad and his own non powered adventures, Krypto and other members of the surviving Kandor populace. All of these characters are no longer in active use.  So unless you are making instance on just the current Superman and his wife and the back and forth nature with the current Supergirl as the co called Superman Family (don't want to give away the situation with Power Girl), again there is no reason for such other than as a historic reference as there is no Superman Family.
 * Did you even look at the Batman Family article?, Think of it more of a Team than a Family (family dose not have to mean genetic) with information on memebers wheather there active inactive deceased. information on their enemys, allies, history, weapons, technology, base of operation stuff like that! -- Awar 06:09, 8 June 2007 (UTC).
 * Again Superman does NOT need a support team precisely because of his nature as one of the most powerful beings in existence. That was one of the reasons that in the recast history he was not one of the founding members of the Justice League as basically he does NOT need them.  The Superman Family was an extended idea based on trying to show Superman more human in his adventures and appreciative to his adopted home and its people in Kal-L, and for the Earth-One version alongside his LARGE amount of retconned Kandor based survivors.  In the current reality there is no need for Superman Family as he has his foster parents still alive and has no direct surviving members other than Supergirl who his relationship with currently is at best iffy and Superman does NOT rely on Jimmy as a hero in the current reality and Conner is dead.  So unless you are either going to go on the erased events of the Pre-Crisis reality or limit your events to that of the current Kal-El and his wife and Supergirl (which again is not reliable) there is no Superman Family to speak of.
 * You are the one that fails to get it, The past did happen, he has needed help, his powers have always changed from writter to writter and his dose/did have Supergirl (Kara Zor-El), Supergirl (Linda Danvers), Superboy (Kon-El/Conner Kent), Krypto etc as part of his team/extended family at some point. It did happen it is cannon get over it! -- Awar 13:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC).

Sub-light?
New Earth Superman can move at lightspeed. I dont like the way that everyone is talking about all of this 2000 mps stuff. 1% of lightspeed? Come on, the guy flew from Earth to the andromeda galaxy in as long as it took Superman-prime to slaughter 30 green lanterns... and that wasn't long. The andromeda galaxy is approximately 2.5 million light-years away. It would take light from Earth 2 and a half million years to get there... and superman made it in less than an hour. Then there is the fact that he is somehow able to fly to the source wall, which is at the edge of the universe, etc...

My point is that superman is AT LEAST lightspeed, if not way faster. According to recent comics.


 * Hi. For some reason, we have a bunch of Post-Crisis Superman entries. If you mean the latest one (current publications), that would be this one. For some reason. I think he's faster than light too. ;-)
 * --Roygbiv666 16:29, 9 January 2008 (UTC)


 * For sure Roygbiv666. More faster than even the fastest bullet, etc, etc....
 * --Cluebert 5:48 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Merging?
Hey Roygbiv666 and anybody else, do u think we ought to merge the whole Kal-El (New Earth) category with this one? Technically, I know that TPTB have wrote in Action Comics that Superman was born before being sent to Earth instead of in a birthing matrix, but Superman (Post-Crisis) and Superman (New Earth) are still the one and the same. Just because they have done some revisioning over the last while doesn't mean that everything about John Byrne and following writers (Supes' first encounter with Batman, first fight with Bizarro, etc) is now worthless and jettisoned. Sure, they have a few kinks and differences, but DC Comics did not say they would be getting rid of "everything" that was done in the last nearly twenty years. They only changed the aspects of Kal-El's birth, revised Krypton, and re-introduced some things not shown in years like Mon-El, Legion of Superheroes, etc. It is known that Clark was a football player in his youth, had a crush on Lana and revealed the truth to her, blah blah blah.
 * --Cluebert 5:55 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I suppose and it does make sense, but at the same time isn't this comparable to the changes effected after Crisis on Infinite Earths in MOS? When that happened, DC stated that some of his stories from the Silver Age would still apply - so in a way, yes the stories from the last 20 years are the same. I suppose the question would be if now after Infinite Crisis, it really is a 'New Age' or not since for example, apparently now Superman and Batman get along on more cordial terms and Lex Luthor is back to running around in that powered suit.

The Crisis of recording what happened before a Crisis
I'm pretty new to the DC Wiki (I mostly post stuff over on the Marvel one) and I have to admit that I'm pretty new at figuring out some of the headaches both Crisis on Infinite Earth's and Infinite Crisis have caused in revamps of characters, but perhaps I can give an "outsiders" perspective, not just of the Superman article, but a lot of the other ones I've read on here. I suppose what I'm used to seeing in terms of profiles of characters, is in the typical "Official Handbook" exhaustive profiles of characters, and I can see how applying some of the stuff (Especially the pre-Crisis stuff *phew* I don't envy the person who writes a profile for Earth-One Superman in extensive detail) would require a lot of research, but I think for the sake of clarity and to present all the facts, even if in the current revamp are irrelevant would be the best way to go. And perhaps the best way to properly address everything, and be sure that nothing is left out (For example, the Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis versions of Superman mentioned above and how Post-Infinite Crisis changes things around as well) perhaps it's best to have different profiles for each incarnation. That is done for some characters on here (For example Batman of Earth-One, Earth-Two and New-Earth) where others these details are not identified (The Justice League of America profile) with separate versions. It seems the biggest blurring point is when we've got a character (like Superman of Earth-One and the Justice League) that weren't completely re-written but revamped as a result of the various changes wrought by whichever Crisis effected things. Perhaps splitting up a characters profile into these distinctions would be best. Like for example, Earth-One Superman... Do a Pre-Crisis entry, explain everything as it was told up until Crisis on Infinite Earths. Do a new heading explaining how that Crisis changed Superman's history and then break into a new profile for Post-Crisis Superman. Post-Crisis Superman you go into Bryne's origins, tell his history up until the next big reality shaker that revamped his origins ...Did Armageddon and Zero Hour effect him that profoundly? I wouldn't know really... which I guess would be Infinite Crisis.... End the profile with an explanation how that further revamped Supes origins and end the profile there and start a new one for the Post-Infinite-Crisis-New-Earth Superman, which by and large is a work in progress naturally since that's still fresh. Anyway, that's my suggestion, I like the work people do here, it's a great archive of knowledge, but the completest in me wants to know all, and I suppose the best way of doing that would be to have it all, every incarnation and instead of going back and re-writing something that's been retconned or rendered not applicable due to some revamp or another, just explain how a certain event changed the course of things. Dunno what you all think, I guess I'm just typing out loud ;) Comments?
 * --Nausiated 6:09 29 January 2008

My Thanks
Id like to thank the one, who made this article...Very nice
 * (Unsigned by Lordseid)

Usage
I don't really understand the difference between the two primary Superman articles. I'm sure there is one, I'm just too lazy to go through and read all of the pages. Could somebody explain to me when I'm supposed to use this character, instead of the New Earth version?
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 05:01, 11 September 2008 (UTC)


 * BUMP
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 03:42, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * BUMPPPPPPP. Sorry, it's just killing me that I'm very well listing incorrect appearances frequently.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 03:16, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Believe me when I say, I appreciate your frustration. Personally, I LOATHE the idea of having two separate pages for what is in effect a single continuity. Bugs the crap out of me. Unfortunately, Superman: Birthright created an irreconcilable continuity quagmire (Say THAT five times real fast!). The histories of both versions are completely incompatible with one another, owing largely to the radical changes in Kryptonian culture.


 * But, to answer your question: For appearances sake, I would list all Supes appearances from October 1986 to August 2003 as Kal-El (Post-Crisis) and everything from September 2003 (the cover date to Birthright #1) to the present as Kal-El (New Earth). The same holds true for Ma and Pa Kent and Jor-El and Lara. All of the other Supes supporting cast should be fine as is. --Brian Kurtz 04:23, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I haven't used it once ever, and I've been doing a lot of 90s work lately. They're supposed to be cleaning up Supes' origin anyway, though. Just what exactly is the discrepancy?
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 05:21, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * We could use Tabs to differentiate the different versions. ANyone?
 * Roygbiv666 13:45, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Superman: Birthright
Should Birthright continuity count as "New Earth"? The Clever Guy (Talk &bull; Contribs &bull; E-Mail) 16:48, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It is being ignored, or replaced, slowly. MaGnUs

Current power descriptions
In the hopes of preventing a potential edit war, I recommend keeping Superman's power levels as they are currently presented (as per the December 18th, 2007 17:50 edit by Kal l fan). Using RPG or game statistics to gauge power levels is fine so long as they do not contradict information supplied in the comic books. The comics themselves should always be considered the most authoritative information source. If the comics present Superman with FTL flight capability or the potential to lift in excess of 100,000 tons, than yes, the article should most certainly be updated. --Brian Kurtz 19:48, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

There is also no mention of Superman's powers under a blue sun environment. He went to a planet to rescue Pa Kent. The planet was orbiting a blue sun. Jor-El even mentioned that his powers were enhanced and even got a new power. The power that he found and was coined by Pa Kent was called "Superman-Vision" or bio-enhancement. This means that Superman can give humans powers like his under a blue sun. It was an accident when he accidentally hit Pa with this new power and Pa was uninjured when Bizarro- Doomsday hit him. Just wanted to know let others know because New Earth Bizarro had a new power under a blue sun world and it was not mentioned for Superman.

Hey, just joined this database a couple days ago and wanted to see if editing Superman's Powers and Abilities to be less contradictory would start an unwanted editing war. For example, in his Super Speed it says that he can fly in excess of lightspeed in normal space (which is definitely true) but at the end it states that he can only reach 1% of lightspeed. This is confusing to someone who's just starting to read about the Man of Steel. And it should also be mentioned that the only reason he doesn't fly faster than light on Earth is because he doesn't want to cause damage to it, like his Super Strength.

Oh and I was also wondering if we could add his Super Scream back to the page. The one he used to cancel out a nuclear detonation. --x Man of Steel x--


 * Go for it. As long as you're doing it intelligently. Some people... don't.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 16:49, 10 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Yup - you can't overdo citations. Well, I suppose you could, but I've yet to see it happen.
 * Roygbiv666 17:49, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Another question? Why is his strength level only considered 100 tons when we all know he can easily reach over 100,000? If there is a good reason, I'll leave it alone. I just don't understand.


 * For reasons unclear (probably the original Marvel Handbook), "100 tons" became an arbitrary high end strength designation. So, usually, characters get listed by 100+ or something. If you can cite a specific source for more, please do so. I think the old Who's Who entry says he can lift the Great Pyramid of Cheops, which is apparently 6,000,000 tons.


 * Also, don't forget to sign your posts by putting four of these little symbols at the end, like this: ~
 * Roygbiv666 17:38, 30 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Anybody have a citation for "generally accepted that his strength easily surpasses the capacity to lift 900,000,000 tons"?
 * Roygbiv666 Sig 001.png 03:43, February 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * anything that says generally accepted should be reverted on the spot as far as I'm concerned.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 05:10, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Superman's Invulnerability
Superman never used a forcefield, Tempest's magic, or a power Ring to protect him when he flew into Earth's yellow Sun during Our Worlds at War Saga. Tempest's magic was used to help open a Boom Tube to the begining of time. Superman did it before when he lost his powers during the Final Nught Crisis. He Boom Tubed in with Metron Of the New Gods in a ship. The ship and the Force Field burned up as soon as they flew in and He immerged from the Sun fully charged. And still flew around looking for Metron inside the Sun. Flying into the Sun has shown to have adverse effects to the Superman from the Alternate universe Storyline,"All Star Superman". Please consider revising.

Superboy
So, now that Superboy's back in continuity... that's like a shitload of new stuff we need to add onto this page, huh?
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 01:32, October 23, 2009 (UTC)

No, I don't think so.

The new Superboy has NOTHING to due with Clark's past before becoming Superman. It's his clone... J. A. R. Head 01:03, December 15, 2009 (UTC)


 * Not Conner Kent, I was talking about the recent events in .
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 01:33, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

GREAT! This is just wonderful... I was SO glad that there wasn't a Superboy past... Whatever.

IDK, I think, maybe, we could just post "Secret Origin" at the top. Maybe not much is changed in the story enough where we won't have to change EVERYTHING.


 * It fundamentally alters the nature of his youth in smallville, and retcons the Post-Crisis character back into a crapload of old Legion of Super-Heroes stories.
 * - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 05:24, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Although, it may, let's just put it at top, like I said. If anything changes about him becoming Superman, then we can add it. But, for now, let's just see how far this series goes.J. A. R. Head 00:46, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

I think it may be canon with the original Man of Steel/Birthright comics... Mainly due to Superman vol. 1 #676 being based before the events of Man of Steel#5. J. A. R. Head 00:46, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

Supergirl
Where can we add the Superman/Batman story???? J. A. R. Head 00:49, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

World of New Krypton
Yeah, I appreciate the work that went into this, but does the "World of New Krypton" section need to be that detailed? Can't we summarize it in a paragraph or two and put in a link to the storyline?
 * Roygbiv666 Sig 001.png 23:41, February 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * So ... nobody then?
 * Roygbiv666 Sig 001.png 21:33, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I raised the issue on Leader Vladimir's talk page, but haven't got a response. However, I'm not reading World of New Krypton (planned to get the trades) so I can't properly condense it. If you can, by all means have a go. -- SFH 21:59, March 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * I absolutely agree. This is suppose to be a history of Kal-El, not a synopsis of World of New Krypton. Perhaps on the Kal-El page, we can provide a brief overview of that event in his life, and a link to the World of New Krypton Event...?

Goblyn4evil 20:30, July 14, 2010 (UTC)