DC Database talk:Prime Earth Project

Okay, go nuts!
This page is where you can discuss our policy on the splitting of New Earth and Prime Earth versions of characters, and explain or justify your decision/intention to create Prime Earth pages for certain characters. Please remember that if you do create a Prime Earth version of this page, to add them to the list of disambigs to update on the project page this talk page is associated with. Okay, go nuts!

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Victor Fries (Prime Earth)
Let's get the ball rolling with Victor Fries (Prime Earth). With Batman Annual Vol 2 1, the writers pretty much took his origin and through it out the window. Like, Fries was a murderer since childhood and he doesn't even know Nora. She's just some random lady he fell in love who's inside a cryogenic tube! Approve of a Prime Earth page? --- Harold "The Party" Rocks  talk  21:01, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree. He and Nora both need Prime Earth pages (her last name is revealed, but I've forgotten what it is). - Hatebunny (talk) 21:03, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Someone added her to pages as "Nora Fields". They probably merged the two. -- Tupka 217 21:04, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Question. For Victor, should I use the textless Batman Annual Vol 2 1 picture or does anyone have a better suggestion? --- Harold "The Party" Rocks  talk  21:08, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I need to check the annual, so I see if I can come up with an internal panel. How do we handle the PEthing on Nora? She's essentially two characters. -- Tupka 217 21:11, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Until we get a better interior image, it'll have to do. He has some appearances in Birds of Prey as well, and one of the Night of the Owls crossovers (Red Hood, I think?). For the PEthing... hmmm... EITHER link to the Nora Fries page as the "previous version" OR Nora Fields, and use the Nora Fries disambig. The latter seems a bit more useful, but she is not the "previous version".- Hatebunny (talk) 21:16, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * I used a comic single panel from Batman Annual Vol 2 1 that was conveniently in his New Earth gallery. Anyway, you said something about mentioning disambigs? Where does that go again? --- Harold "The Party" Rocks  talk  21:24, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Just add Victor Fries and Mister Freeze to this page under the line (along with Nora Fries and Nora Fields if you make her a page too). You can either try to apply the dual-highlight version of the disambig template to those pages yourself, or leave that to us. Either way, we're going to check the list periodically, make sure it's done properly (or just done), and then remove them from the list. - Hatebunny (talk) 21:31, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Edward Nygma (Prime Earth)
Alright. Round two. Edward Nigma (Prime Earth). Although not as blunt with retconning as Freeze is, in this continuity, Edward acts as Philip Kane's mischievous advisor of Wayne Enterprises while Bruce is assumed dead. Prime Earth Riddler is portrayed as being an egotistical wise-guy instead of the clue-crazed maniac he is on New Earth. In Batman Vol 2 23, Philip Kane calls him by his full name "Edward Nigma." This retcons the fact that he legally changed his name from "Nashton" to "Nigma" while taking up the Riddler alias. Prime Earth page? --- Harold "The Party" Rocks  talk  23:50, August 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * It's "Nygma", actually. Just checked, but I'm okay with this. - Hatebunny (talk) 00:03, August 23, 2013 (UTC)


 * I guess I was staring at the Edward Nashton page too long. Edward Nygma (Prime Earth). Fixing the title. --- Harold "The Party" Rocks  talk  00:27, August 23, 2013 (UTC)

Anthony Zucco (Prime Earth)
I was on the fence with this one but I'll bring him up anyway. Anthony Zucco (Prime Earth). On New Earth, Anthony Zucco was a cruel mob boss who was practically obliterated by chopper gunfire in front of Batman and Nightwing. On Prime Earth, Zucco's unspecified death was faked, now has wife and small kids under a different alias, and shows redemption for his character. He is not portrayed as the cruel, uncaring mob boss he was on New Earth. What do you guys think? --- Haroldrocks  talk  13:25, August 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * Wait, choppers? I thought he died of a heart attack in Dark Victory. -- Tupka 217 13:32, August 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * His New Earth page lists Batman Vol 1 438 as his death. On that page, it says that Batman and Nightwing watched Zucco get gunned down by a helicopter. "Raising his arms above his head and celebrating his first moment outside, Zucco is cut down by a hail of bullets fired from the WGCN news helicopter." --- Haroldrocks  talk  15:31, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Basil Karlo (Prime Earth)
Is Basil Karlo getting a Prime Earth page? I saw his red-linked appearance listed on Forever Evil Vol 1 2 and figured I should get the "Okay" here first before doing anything. --- Haroldrocks  talk  16:28, October 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not ready much Batman but I think you're safe to make him one.


 * Anyone else notice that we've really been waiting on making Batman-related pages but all these conversations are about Bat-villains. Kyletheobald (talk) 17:50, October 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * To clarify, Kyle, should I ignore the red-linked Batman villains from now on? --- Haroldrocks  talk  01:10, October 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Nope. You're totally fine. I just found it amusing that pretty much every character is open game outside Bats and the GL's and the only ones I've noticed so far are Batman related. Kyletheobald (talk) 01:31, October 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh, alright. Haha. I don't follow any other heroes so I only make the pages for the villains I know. Anyway, to hasten the process a little, I'll just make a list of Bat-villains that don't have Prime Earth pages that might need them. If any blatantly don't need pages, I'll just cross them off.


 * Joker (Prime Earth) (Redirected to New Earth, but I thought I'd include him anyway. Just to be safe.)
 * Harvey Dent (Prime Earth)
 * Jonathan Crane (Prime Earth)
 * Bane (Prime Earth)
 * Ra's al Ghul (Prime Earth)
 * Talia al Ghul (Prime Earth) (Also a redirect)
 * Pamela Isley (Prime Earth)
 * Jervis Tetch (Prime Earth)
 * Lazlo Valentin (Prime Earth)
 * --- Haroldrocks  talk  20:29, October 7, 2013 (UTC)


 * Of the people on the list you made, only the Mad Hatter and the Scarecrow have had significant changes made to their origin stories. Everyone else has merely appeared - basically as the same character as before. - Hatebunny (talk) 20:14, October 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Alright. No problem. Then I'll just work on those two, then. --- Haroldrocks  talk  20:27, October 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, what about Joker? With our (debatable) origin story given in Batman Vol 2 23.1: The Joker, and how he was handled at the beginning of his run, along with various other things, he seems like he might have changed a suitable amount to justify it. Not to mention he's been showing quite a different face to the public (literally and figuratively). I could be wrong, though. - GZilla311 (talk)


 * Although I'd like to see a Joker (Prime Earth) page, it could be justified for the other side that his childhood is never really touched on on New Earth anyway, and that Death of the Family doesn't really add much to his character to deserve a page. --- Haroldrocks  talk  21:53, October 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Despite my opinion that Scott Snyder doesn't get the Joker as a character, I don't know if the character being a different interpretation counts as the character being a different character. - Hatebunny (talk) 21:55, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Prime Earth First Appearances
I noticed that about two-thirds of the Prime Earth pages have the historical first appearance & a third has the current first appearance. Is there a consensus as to which should be used? I personally prefer the current first appearance (or maybe both) with the historical mentioned in notes or trivia. --Mcwoody


 * My opinion is that it should be New 52 first in the infobox since the note has the original. It lets readers know where to actually find the new 52 first since the note only lists the series and it adds them to the New 52 character category instead of Golden Age, Silver Age or Modern Age. This isn't a set policy though. This is probably as good a place as any to discuss it. Kyletheobald (talk) 14:02, October 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * I think it should be original first appearance in the infobox, and first appearance in this continuity in the notes. I think it's silly for new readers to click on the Superman page and read that he was created in 2011. - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 14:05, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Character Names
I know this isn't directly related, but it does stand to how difficult it is to distinguish some of these things now.

On the pages for Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and perhaps others I'm missing, we have them linked as "Superman (Clark Kent)", "Wonder Woman (Diana Prince)", and "Batman (Bruce Wayne)". Now, this would normally be all well and good. It's got both of the continuities in two of those. ...but Wonder Woman has a new page, for her Prime Earth version. Should we change the titles of those pages to "Kal-El (New Earth)", etc etc? For sake of consistency. On the same token as people not wanting to see a late appearance of a well-established hero as their first in the new continuity, they could click on a page linking to what they believe to be Wonder Woman or someone else, and end up in their earlier one when they don't want it.

Therefore, I'm proposing that we change the titles of those pages to as I said above (with Diana of Themyscira (New Earth) for Wonder Woman), and and link the things that they are now to the Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman disambiguation pages. It seems like needless confusion.

Also, if I'm forgetting someone, sorry about that.