I believe wonder woman wins because it is stated that se can go toe to toe with superman i terms of strength she is far more skilled in martial arts and combat than he is and at last her powers are based on magic and superman is vunerable to magic
I believe wonder woman wins because it is stated that se can go toe to toe with superman i terms of strength she is far more skilled in martial arts and combat than he is and at last her powers are based on magic and superman is vunerable to magic
Full strength bloodlusted superman with no limits Superman owns 100%
For WW(even without bracelets) to win we need to introduce conditions
Let's break it down further
GA Superman vs WW: if her bracelets come off she goes berserker and probably gains the strength of Supes, but loses her tactical advantage. Competitive fight, but since GA Superman can't bloodlust, WW would probably win
SA Superman vs SA WW: base level WW can't compete with SA supes. Without her bracelets, she loses her tactical advantage, and still can't approach Superman's strength (SA Superman was insanely overpowered). Superman owns easily.
BA Superman vs SA WW: WW is basically same as above, but superman has been de-powered some since the insanity of the silver age. I can't recall a bronze age WW story(help please?) Where WW removed her bracelets, so I'm not sure if she stills go berserk. At some point post-crisis the bracelets simply keep her powers in check, they do not cause berserker mode when removed. Either way, the fight would be competitive, but a Superman without restraints should ultimately win.
Post-crisis: WW vastly increases her strength when bracelets are removed (she is demigod in modern age) but retains her tactical advantage. Superman is technically killable in this era, but she doesn't have an adaptive ability like doomsday. Superman in this era increases his strength proportionate to the person he is fighting, whereas WW should have an upper cap on her powers(it has not been stated otherwise as far as I know). Very competitive, but superman wins.
Now, if we bring in some of the different versions of Superman (superman prime one million, cosmic armour superman) it isn't even remotely competitive. Supes owns.
Finally: WW does not have as many feats as supes to guage her power by. We certainly don't have much to go by to define the upper limits of her strength without bracelets, demigod version. Superman has many(often contradictory but still) feats to go by. And superman is essentially a walking plot device. DC treats him as the ultimate hero, therefore he is.
I agree with you that feats don't necessarily mean anything, but could be relevant depending on the terms of the debate. If it's any version of wonder woman vs any version of Superman, then we don't have head to head battles to parse what may happen. But if we know that certain iterations of a hero can do certain things like punch a moon to death, or freeze atomic motion to almost absolute zero, then we may be able to determine what those abilities could do to an opponent if unleashed.
I do agree with you that if we are talking about a specific iteration of these characters, and they have battled in continuity, then that should take precedence over feats performed in that same era. However, sometimes author biases can even make those battles kind of irrelevant Darkseid is either the big bad of the DC universe or a chump blocker depending on who is writing him *cough* *Jurgens* *cough* and since he exists outside of the multiverse he should be unchanging regardless of era.
To clarify: I am a fan of WW, I am currently reading through Rucka's rebirth run and loving every minute. And I do like the idea of WW being on the level of Superman. We know Bruce has his contingencies to take out WW and Supes, so if WW and Supes are 50-50, then it brings balance to the Trinity. I just think it comes down to author bias somewhat, and that the DC editorial is generally biased towards superman.
I mean we could do what that one user did about 2 years ago and make something up about Wonder Woman having access to the God Source and just say she beats Superman like that
The problem with feats is a lack of consistency between writers. We've seen Batman beat the Justice League in one comic then get curb stomped by Wonder Woman in another. One second Wonder Man is as strong as Sentry the next he's getting battered by the villain of the week to show how strong they are. Shiva is the best martial artist on the planet unless Cassandra Cain or Tim Drake have anything to say about it etc
Until we establish a cohesive, uniform level of power for every character feats are basically arbitrary
I'm pretty sure she gave him his bo staff for beating her
I could be wrong but she's the Worf of DC so basically replace Tim with any character since she's probably lost to them too
Point remains the same
Interesting that Shiva comes up. I have had debates where people argue that WW has unparalleled fighting ability and tactical prowess, and then others (mostly with batfans admittedly) where it is argued that if WW didn't have her powers, she would get bodied easily by lady Shiva.