Zack Snyder's Justice League

For those that have seen the film here what did you think about it? Did you like/dislike certain parts? Did you want more of anything in particular? Feel free to discuss below.

Do try to mark any spoilers that you may need to expand upon.

On August 20, 1974, Amy Adams, the actress for Lois Lane in the DC Extended Universe, was born!

Happy birthday to such a fine and talented actress! Thank you for all your marvelous work throughout the years and may you continue living the dream!

Hello, ladies and gentlemen! I'm Leader Vladimir and I'm here to talk about my love for the Superman from the DC Extended Universe.

This particular Superman has resonated so well with me, thanks in large part to Henry Cavill's amazing talent as an actor. He brings Superman a level of moral complexity and emotional nuance not seen since the DC Animated Universe. This Superman breaks the "goody-two-shoes boy scout" stereotype that has plagued the character for a very long time and instead shows us, the viewers, the struggle of doing the right thing in a world that constantly scrutinizes Superman's actions.

Henry portrays Superman as a very human character and I think Superman has very human responses and very genuine reactions to his experiences, and for some, he might remind them of how they went through or got through some struggles of their own or some dark times. Since Henry himself has expressed interest in putting on the cape again, I thought now would be as good a time as any to talk about why I love DCEU Superman.

Personal choice is an important theme in Superman's journey throughout what I call "the Superman saga" of the DCEU. Each film presents Superman with a choice: he can either accept he has a personal stake in the main conflict of each movie and get involved, or he can just go home and hope for things to magically sort themselves out. His fathers, Jor-El and Jonathan, always told Clark that while he had great potential and a special destiny, they wouldn't be something that Clark would achieve easily. He would have to actively to choose to develop that potential and pursue that destiny. By accepting the mantle of Superman and choosing to help people despite the personal discomfort it might bring him, Clark truly proves himself to be the son of his two fathers.

And this is probably the point where a lot of you will criticize, call me horrible things and ask me, in the most aggressive way possible, how is it possible for me, or anyone else for that matter, to like this "fake" or "inferior" Superman who will never be considered be one of the all-time greats like Christopher Reeve, George Reeves or Tim Daly. That's fine, that's perfectly fine. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting and expecting different things out of the same character and the same franchise. We're all Superman fans here, we just see things differently.

The truth is that I love DCEU Superman is because while crafting his story, Henry and Zack Snyder chose "confrontational and compelling" over "safe and boring". They decided to make this particular version of Superman more fallible and human compared to other incarnations of the character. I myself enjoyed that this particular Superman was created for the purpose of fighting this supremely annoying misconception of Superman being an overpowered, unrelatable god whose only function is to inspire people to be and do good and that has no emotion beyond eagerness to do the right thing.

The DCEU is ultimately about the power of DC stories and I love how Zack and Henry used the legend of Superman to try to understand why Superman matters so much to us. While there are fans who see the DCEU movies as betrayals to Superman and his community, the stories within those movies are what so dramatically effective in achieving the DCEU's thematic goals. The whole point of the Superman saga is to show that, maybe, the legend of Superman isn't necessarily best used as an escapist power fantasy because, despite his feats and accomplishments, Superman isn't perfect and he will always have flaws, and when those flaws are exposed, they will always feel like a betrayal to the ideals and expectations we have placed upon the character and his community. Instead, the DCEU uses the legend of Superman as a tool to galvanize people behind a cause and make people believe in that cause. If an insecure, rookie Superman can choose to save a world that fears and hates him and then inspire others to follow him into the light, then maybe there's hope for us. All of us.

Ultimately, this all comes down to personal taste, like most things, really. I'm not demanding that you like DCEU Superman. I totally get why Superman fans, both long-time and new, prefer more idealized Supermen like Christopher Reeve or Tim Daly and why their respective stories as so highly regarded as they are, but just because they are the Supermen you prefer, please don't suggest that the fans that like DCEU Superman are in any way fans of a less legitimate kind of Superman because, whether you prefer an idealized and highly cheerful Superman or a flawed and more human Superman, these are all official and valid versions of Superman.

We have to remember that Warner Bros. and DC Comics are not singular entities that have remained mostly unchanged throughout the passage of time, but rather, publically owned companies with ever-changing infrastructures and hierarchies and that they operate within the highly competitive market that is the entertainment industry. In our modern society, people have virtually unlimited forms of entertainment at their disposal, which means Warner and DC have to make a lot of... controversial decisions to grab their audiences' attention for more than just a few microseconds. I may not agree with some of their decisions, but I do understand them.

Superman and his community have been around for 80+ years, which means Warner and DC must continously reinvent them, deconstruct them and reconstruct them in order to make them more interesting and appealing for modern audiences, lest Superman and his community will become parodies of themselves. As far as Warner Bros and DC Comics are concerned, DCEU Superman is a valid and legitimate interpretation of the character, so why should we believe otherwise? In 2013, Henry, Zack and their co-workers were tasked by Warner and DC to make a movie that would revitalize Superman for a modern era and honor his legacy. Whether they succeeded or not is a matter of opinion, but DCEU Superman's an official and legitimate version of the character that has endured the passage of 80+ years is not.

Well, that's all I have for you this time. Now, it's your turn to tell me what do you think about all of this. As always, this is the start of a dialogue and you have my thanks for participating in it and for taking the time to read what I had to say. Posting my opinions in this website doesn't make them any greater or more valid than yours and I'm just glad to have this privilege and this honor to share my opinions with you, although I do admit I did hijack this particular topic a little bit. The only thing I ask of you is to deliver your opinions in a polite and civilized manner. We're all Superman fans here, we just see things differently. So leave a comment below, thanks for your time and stay safe out there!

On April 30, 1985, Gal Gadot, the actress for the Princess of the Amazons in the DC Extended Universe, was born!

Happy birthday to such a fine and talented actress! Thank you for all your wondrous work throughout the years and I hope you keep living the dream!

Hello, ladies and gentlemen. I am Leader Vladimir and I'm here to talk about a recent change of mind I had in regards to Superman's attire. I want to talk about the black suit that has been seen in recent comic books, movies and TV shows.

Once upon a time, I severely disliked the black suit because I saw it as an unnecessary addition to the Superman mythos. Back then, I saw the black suit as a blatant attempt to make Superman cool and edgy, but in time, I came to realize that it was stupid and reductive of me to think like that, especially because the black suit is simply a way to continue Superman's character development in whatever story the suit appears.

In Zack Snyder's Justice League, the suit was featured in the Fortress of Solitude because Superman believed himself unworthy of the blue suit and needed to start over in order to become the superhero Earth and the Justice League needed. It wasn't just a form of fanservice, it had a reason to be in the story.

Don't get me wrong, I still prefer the traditional suit over the black suit, but at the end of the day, the black suit is a minor change to Superman's appearance. It's nonsensical to dismiss something simply because it forces you to challenge your preconceptions about Superman and the world he lives in. While the core aspects of Superman (including his suit) remain mostly unchanged throughout the years, the fact is this: Superman is whatever a story and its audience need him to be.

Well, that's all I have for you this time. Now, it's your turn to tell me what do you think about the black suit. Do you think it's a great addition to the Superman mythos, do you think it's unnecessary or perhaps you find yourself in the middle, with no strong feelings either way? Whatever your opinions might be, please write them in a polite and civilized manner. We're all fans of Superman and DC Comics here, we just see things differently. So leave a comment below, thanks for your time and stay safe out there!

I have just went and rewatched Man of Steel BVS Ultimate Edition and ZSJL and I have to say Zack’s universe is remarkably unappreciated here is why I think so.

•Man of Steel

Man of Steel is crapped on a fair bit specifically for the scene were Clark kills Zod and people say Clark should’ve just turned Zod’s head, but that is not how it works. Superman and Zod were fighting pretty stagnantly for most of the scene and when Clark finally got his opportunity to stop this he took it by killing Zod. If he didn’t kill Zod and just turned his head he would’ve lost his superiority in the situation because then Zod would realize that Clark doesn’t have the balls to finish the job causing Zod to be even more careless knowing that Superman wouldn’t even attempt to kill him. This would return the fight to a stand-still, sure Clark could’ve handled it better but that is the opposite of the point of Man of Steel. The point of Man of Steel is that Clark just became Superman and that is why in some instances he still acts like a douchebag or I would say he acts human. For some reason people like to try to shoot this argument down by saying, “But Superman isn’t a human.” Your right he isn’t but he was raised in Kansas and taught all the basic human morals and yeah sometimes he loses his cool like when he fucked up that douchebag’s truck but he is still at heart a pretty good dude. But what a lot of people didn’t like was that in the comics Superman is usually shown to be morally perfect in every way with very little flaws that just makes him seem like a very decent super dude. But in reality those moral holes would start bigger when he was younger, in this movie he is 27-28, and Zack originally intended Superman to, “grow over his planned 5 film arc” as he stated in a BVS interview. And if you’ve watched BVSUE and ZSJL you would know that was happening. Another problem people have that I don’t understand is when they say, “There shouldn’t be so much destruction.” This annoys me because c’mon in reality there would definitely be this much destruction if not more.

•Batman V Superman: Ultimate Edition

BVSUE is what Zack intended to be made but wasn’t allowed to be shown in official screenings because of Warner Bros. I’ve noticed that most people that saw this movie didn’t understand it and the people that didn’t see it assumed it was bad because of Rotten Tomatoes critic score the thing is this movie has so much unnoticed dialogue decisions that made this movie so good. Let’s start with the infamous “Martha” scene and let’s talk about why it is perfect. People say a lot that this scene is so stupid because of the fact that Batman flipped his entire motive as soon as he heard that Superman’s mom has the same name his mom had but that isn’t what is happening. In the scene you can see after Clark said Martha Bruce fell back and started pacing as if having a panic attack from PTSD of his mother’s death and Bruce also realizes Clark’s humanity despite the fact he is an alien. Another problem people have with this film is obviously Batman killing I think Zack knew what he was doing but explained it horribly in that interview I think that Frank Miller said it best, “He is so simple in concept that he is open to an incredible amount of interpretations.” That’s all it is Ben Affleck’s Batman is a different interpretation similar to Frank Miller’s an old, gruff, man that has been so worn down he has no care for human life anymore

•Zack Snyder’s Justice League

This is the third and most likely last installment of the Snyderverse (though there is now a chance due to the reestablishment of Warner Max) I loved this movie and there is not much to talk about here because it was received very well.

I just think you have to give this franchise a chance and btw the 4:3 ratio theory really does work.

Do you guys have appreaciated snyder for direct the dceu??? personally yes.

The only problem is that warner don't want too dark moments in their films and snyder he could not do what he had in mind. and i am so sad about that.... i was so hyped to see manganiello's deathstroke but...i d'ont think that we will see im again in the dceu it's a pity that warner ruined the dc cinema contents let's see what they will do with the flash....... 

Hello, everyone. I spent some time thinking about Superman's portayal within the DC Extended Universe and I found him a bit too similar to Luke Skywalker from the Star Wars original trilogy.

Both stories are representations of the hero's journey, which George Lucas directly used to craft Luke's story. No, the comparisons are not perfect, and even if they are, I don't think Zack Snyder copied what Lucas did while creating Superman's story for the movie, but they still work to a certain extent. Think about it:

In the first chapter (Man of Steel/A New Hope), the hero (Clark/Luke) has a normal life as a farmer until an old mentor (Jor-El/Obi-Wan Kenobi) reveals to him that he has a great destiny. The hero discovers his powers and embarks on a journey to defeat a villain (General Zod/Darth Vader) who is connected to his family and has a weapon of mass destruction (World engine/Death Star) at his disposal. The first act ends with the hero destroying the villain's weapon and helping a resistance group (U.S. military/Rebel Alliance) to victory.

The second chapter (Batman v Superman/The Empire Strikes Back) is absolutely brutal to the hero, breaking him physically, mentally and emotionally. Not only does the hero struggle at everything he tries to do, he continuously makes the wrong choices. The villain (Lex Luthor/Emperor Palpatine) manipulates the hero and lures him into a trap, either by threatening his loved ones or undermining his ideals. By the end of the second chapter, Superman gets killed by Doomsday while Luke loses his hand to Darth Vader. The only difference here is the small victory the hero gets. Superman manages, at least indirectly, to get Lex to face justice for his crimes while Luke ultimately rejects the dark side and chooses death, but as we all know, he survives, either by pure luck or by the will of the Force.

It's only in the third chapter of the story (both versions of Justice League/Return of the Jedi) that we see true growth in the hero, that he starts coming into his own and achieving his heroic destiny. The hero has become more powerful and we get to see him use his powers in ways we've never seen before. The major difference is in the outcome of the story. The only victory Luke gets is a moral one, while Superman ultimately succeeds in everything he does. Yes, Luke defeats Vader, but only after briefly tapping into the dark side and almost throwing away everything he learned over the course of the story. Even he had destroyed Vader, it's unlikely he would have stood a chance against the Emperor. The only moral failing Superman has is when his resurrection goes badly and he attacks the Justice League.

Like I said before, the comparisons aren't perfect but they still work. Overall, I've enjoyed the DCEU and its version of Superman. No, his story isn't perfect, but it was enjoyable enough and with some polishing, it could have redefined the hero's journey for a new generation of moviegoers. DCEU Superman could have been the Luke Skywalker of the superhero genre, and maybe to some people, he already is the Luke Skywalker of the superhero genre. No, I don't think Superman is perfect or infallible, nor do I believe he should try to live up to those expectations, because more often that not, he will fail. Even so, I can appreciate the DCEU's efforts to put Superman's character before his archetype, and in my opinion, Superman's character development was handled correctly in the DCEU and he did become the hero the Justice League needed, even if that journey took him to some dark places.

Ultimately, Superman is an escapist power fantasy and a highly versatile character that can fit multiple roles, depending on the era and the preference of authors and audiences, and I do my best to have an open mind to his story and evolution.

Well, that's all I have for you next time. Now, it's your turn to tell me what do you think of DCEU Superman and his similiarites to Luke. Just be polite and leave your comments in a friendly and civilized manner. This is meant to be a friendly conversation and we're all DC fans here, we just see things differently. I already made a post as to why it's okay to have different opinions. So leave your comments below, thanks for your time and stay safe out there.

Hello, everyone. This is my first time making a post in the DC forum, so I thought it would be a good idea to make a post about Superman, my favorite DC character ever. To be more specific, I want to talk about Superman's portrayal in the DC Extended Universe.

Now, for better or worse, back when Superman's movies in the DCEU were in full swing, Superman's portrayal has been one of the most debated and argued-over topics in the history of DC Comics. There are two firmly-entrenched sides, those who refuse to accept this is Superman and can't be considered a valid interpretation of the character and those who think that this is genuinely Superman and that he is a valid interpretation of the character, not to mention all those people and fans somewhere in-between this debate and have probably become tired of it all.

Anyway, with the Superman saga on hold for now and Warner and DC going back to the drawing board to decide where do they want to take Superman and his community next, Superman fans are left to debate the merits and flaws of these movies, and in this case, Superman's portrayal. Whether you like this version of Superman or not, and no matter how good your argument on defending/criticizing Superman is, some people will never change their minds about this because, to be fair, I've read some really good arguments from both sides and I want to believe I've made some good arguments myself. Personally, I did enjoy the Superman we saw in the DCEU and I'm not ashamed to say that this is one of my favorite versions of Superman ever. Still, people on both sides in the debate have never budged in their beliefs and neither have I, and this makes me believe that there isn't and there can never be a definitive answer about what an actual person named Clark Kent living in the city of Metropolis with his life experiences would have done in the same situations we saw in those movies because he's not actually real.

And yes, I realize that's obvious and I'm not trying to insult your intelligence by pointing it out or make myself sound like an idiot for figuring it out. Instead, I'm trying to highlight the fact that not only does Superman himself not actually exist, which doesn't mean he isn't or can't be important (I'll write about that later); furthermore, every situation he finds himself in his contrived life or set up by a creator (be that a writer, a filmmaker or whatever). Literally everything that has happened or will happen in his life is contrived.

There is no actual causation in fictional stories, only the illusion of it and it's the creator's job to mask that dirty little secret to the best of their ability. It's their job to feel that everything that happens is natural or organic, like it's happening in a completely linear fashion. Even though, oftentimes and usually, when you're creating a fictional story, you're working in anything but a linear fashion. A lot of times, you know the end or, at the very least, have a rough idea of where you wanna go with the story or what you want to say with your story before you even begin. In other words, you need to create a beginning and a middle that gets you to the end you want, and again, you need to deliver the illusion of actual causality and hide the fact that everything is indeed contrived.

And again, I know that I'm saying a lot of obvious things here, but sometimes, people kinda forget them and even if you work in a sort-of linear fashion when writing, even if you start with some characters and come up with something to happen to them, you have no idea on how you want the story to go, much less end, you're still the one making the choices for the characters, even if you're making them based on how you think they would act and then deciding what happens to them as a result.

For example, when it comes to the DCEU movies and how Superman was portrayed in them, Zack Snyder and his creative team were faced with the question "how can we make Superman interesting for a modern audience?" and I'm assuming this is how they approached and went on about it, but they then decided on what would make for the most interesting story, in their opinion at least, is that humans don't have a lot of confidence in Superman's ability to protect them and, instead treat him with suspicion and even hatred, something that understandably disturbs Superman, because he just wants to do the right thing. Then, Snyder and his creative team would have to come up with a situation that would make Superman change his mind and do something heroic again.

So, what it all comes down to is whether you agree or not something like that would be a believable or organic scenario for Superman to experience and whether or not you agree his reactions to that scenario are understandable. While we can certainly debate it, and we do, it is impossible for know for certain because, again, he's not real and every single real person has different experiences and reactions in their lives. And though, sure, we could theoretically, through it would probably never answer this question, imagine what other versions of Superman (comic books, movies, TV shows) would do if they experienced the exact same situations DCEU Superman experienced and I think most of us would respect that answer, whatever it may be.

But still, we wouldn't have a 100% definitive answer because, it would still be an arbitrary decision made by the creators of those stories, not the reaction of a living person who, again, lived a life like DCEU Superman had and/or had the limits or mental fortitude he may or may not have.

And look, we can never know for certain how someone would react to something until they actually face it or know how someone named Clark Kent would have reacted to those experiences, contrived or not, because there are those in the real world who come out bold and strong, like they're full of courage and ready for anything, but then give up and then turn their backs on everything for the smallest of setbacks or the first hint of danger. There are way too many examples of people you'd never think they'd give up and over things that some would consider minor obstacles at best. But there are also examples in the opposite direction. There are people perceived as weak or go through awful tragedies and come out on the other side somehow stronger and wiser for them. Tragedies that, by all rights, no one should have to deal with even though, yes, one universal truth of life is that we will all face adversity or tragedy or loss. It's just part of the deal, which is why Superman can be and is so important to me, for many different reasons.

Because of how he persevered, fictional character or not, shows us that we, too, can persevere through our own trials in our time, and sure, some people, myself included, can and do love Superman in these movies because, to us, he feels very human. We think he had a very human response or a very genuine reaction to his experiences, and for some, he might remind them of how they went through or got through some struggles of their own or some dark times.

But others hated him that way because they never wanted him, or the DC Universe itself, to be an entirely accurate reflection of humanity or us as individuals, but rather they see Superman or want to see Superman as some sort of ideal that represents the best we could potentially be, one that might be forever out of reach, but one definitely worth striving for, nonetheless; which, no, isn't to say they wanted Superman to be perfect or god-like and I see people saying that all the time. They didn't want a perfect and flawless Superman to always save the day, to always have the answers and to never show any emotion beyond eagerness to do the right thing. In reality, they just wanted a Superman that was, yes, maybe a little bit more powerful than what we're used to, but wanted a Superman that didn't give up and thus betray the ideal they placed upon him and believed in.

They would have been absolutely okay with Superman facing new struggles, even failing to some degree, but they still wanted him to embody this belief that there are those among us who simply do not break or give up no matter what, that they would always fight and find some way to overcome and that maybe, just maybe, we can be like that, too; that the impossible in our lives might just become possible.

But to see Superman fail and give up because of it is a reminder of our own fragility as humans, that some things might just be impossible to overcome or achieve, no matter how hard we try or fight for them, which is, again, not why they watch or read Superman. They don't want to be reminded of their past or potential failures but instead, they want to be dared to dream about what could be, what could they accomplish.

And look, whether you love or hate the way Superman was portrayed in these movies, that's perfectly fine, I have no problem with that. It's okay to disagree about something and to discuss as rational human beings, even in the end, all we accomplish is agreeing to disagree, and I'm not trying to say that you're pessimistic if you like these movies or you're overly optimistic if you don't. My message here is that was really to say that we all look at things and see them and, ultimately think of them and treat them, differently, not to mention we can all want something different out of the very same thing and to each their own when it comes to DC and what it does or doesn't mean to them and it can be as important or unimportant to you as you want it to be and there's really no reason to fight over it or make fun of others who are passionate about it nor should we be angry or attacking others over the actions of a fictional character, especially when you have to keep in mind that, it is all just a series of fictional contrivances conjured up in the imaginations of writers.

That doesn't mean, that for fun or for the sake of a good and spirited debate, that you can't treat DC as some sort of documentary about the lives of superheroes or the characters or events are real or actually happened, which is something I encourage. I love treating these characters and stories as if they were real and talk and think about them as if these characters are real people and did perform these events. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't get emotional over the stories DC tells. If anything, that goes to show how important and powerful storytelling can be when it's done right. We can literally be influenced and inspired by stories made up by other people. We can want to do better and be better in the real world because of fictional characters like Superman and, really, there are few things greater or more important that we can do as people than to help or inspire those around us.

Well, that's all I have for you this time, now it's your turn to tell me what do you think about Superman in the DCEU. This meant to be friendly discussion, so please be polite and argue your points in a civilized manner. We are all DC fans here, we just see things differently. Posting comments on this website doesn't make my opinions greater and more valid than yours and I'm just glad I have the privilege and the opportunity to share my opinions with you. So, leave a comment below and thanks for your time.