Talk: Move

Archived Move discussions

Previous topics can be found in the Move discussions archives.

Move Discussions

James Corrigan (Lucifer TV Series) to The Spectre (Arrowverse)

Not sure if this is a good title, but there is no evidence that he is from Earth-666 (the Earth where Lucifer takes place).Ninja72 (talk) 23:27, January 24, 2020 (UTC)

But he is James Corrigan. Who already exists. --Tupka²¹⁷ 16:09, February 10, 2020 (UTC)

Like I said, idk if this is a good title or not, but there is no evidence this one is from Earth-666, so it shouldn't be called (Lucifer TV Series). It can't be called James Corrigan (Arrowverse), because that title is already used for the one from Earth-1. Someone else suggested it should be moved to James Corrigan II (Arrowverse), which might be a better title than what I suggested.Ninja72 (talk) 20:00, February 10, 2020 (UTC)

Well, from what I can tell, regarding the article,

- the contents only mention Arrowverse, and never mention Lucifer, so, right then, the title isn't good.

- In Wikipedia (yes, Tupka217, competition), Stephen_Lobo#Television just credits him in Arrowverse (I did watch the Arrow episode of Crisis, but never watched Lucifer show).

So, as far as I see it, given that Constatine is also Arrowverse, either

- the above suggestion of moving to James Corrigan II (Arrowverse) (for me, having II in the title, is a bit poor),

- or... think about this, merging the articles in the article that already exists in arrowverse (wait, what? but the actors are different... Yes, I know. Maybe the previous actor was unavailable to be on crisis episodes, maybe the production decided to recast)

- move to James Corrigan (Arrowverse Crisis) --- added the Crisis in the title.

That's all, folks. :) (The)Batmagoo(BatmanMagoo) (talk) 17:19, July 8, 2020 (UTC)

He was listed as Lucifer because he might be from Earth-666 - which has a Lucifer played by Tom Ellis. One of the earlier suggestions was to move him to Arrowverse: Earth-666, IIRC. --Tupka²¹⁷ 17:28, July 8, 2020 (UTC)

"he might be from Earth-666"... might?! So, now, the titles are guesses?! I only watched the Arrow episode of Crisis: in another Arrowverse Crisis episode, a Lucifer appeared, is that it? and was portrayed by the same actor in Lucifer TV show, is that it? (The)Batmagoo(BatmanMagoo) (talk) 17:34, July 8, 2020 (UTC)

Sigh.

He was listed as Lucifer TV Series because when Crisis came out, we held off on making new universe pages and just reused TV series like Smallville and BoP for 167 and 302 or 203 or w/e. As Jim was implied to be from a different universe than John and was an acquaintance of Lucifer, it wasn't a stretch. But it's time for an update. At this point, I think The Spectre (Arrowverse) and James Corrigan (Arrowverse: Earth-666) are probably the least bad. (Arrowverse Crisis) is a big no. --Tupka²¹⁷ 17:42, July 8, 2020 (UTC)

Sigh (I can write that, as well). Like I said: "he might be from Earth-666"... might?! So, now, the titles are guesses?!

So, in conclusion, if Earth-666 is not a reality fact with this character, James Corrigan (Arrowverse: Earth-666) is a very bad title (it states something none of us really know)... Meaning, that leaves only The Spectre (Arrowverse) (oh, wait, gone right back to where this discussion began) :) (The)Batmagoo(BatmanMagoo) (talk) 18:10, July 8, 2020 (UTC)

Since there is not really any proof that his universe is Earth-666, I don't think it should be (Arrowverse: Earth-666).Ninja72 (talk) 04:26, July 19, 2020 (UTC)

Iris West II (Dark Multiverse: Flash Forward) to Iris West II (Prime Earth)

Although they were created in the Dark Multiverse, it seems their permanent residence is now in Prime Earth. With Linda now having memories of her kids back, it seems better to label them for Prime Earth with notation of creation in the Dark Multiverse. --BrawnyOak 16:47, February 21, 2020 (UTC)

According to Scott Lobdell, they're meant to be the New Earth versions of the kids, but that wasn't clear in the story itself and the source is a supposed account he made on the CBR forums. Until there's a better source for that, I think making it Prime Earth -- despite that not making sense with what we've seen -- is at least preferable to their current titles. SpeedyGeney (talk) 02:30, March 7, 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the move and the reasons. MatthewOne (talk) 03:29, March 7, 2020 (UTC)

I also agree. --1137a (AL) (Earth-1218) (talk) 17:45, June 13, 2020 (UTC)

Jai West (Dark Multiverse: Flash Forward) to Jai West (Prime Earth)

Same argument as listed above. --BrawnyOak 16:47, February 21, 2020 (UTC)

London cleanup (Spitalfields, Edmonton, Wimbledon, Paddington, Battersea, Clapham, Tottenham)

There are tons of areas in London, I think it's safest to just keep it at the 32 Boroughs and not split it further.

Move Spitalfields to Tower Hamlets (or create TH and redirect Spitalfields and Whitechapel to it.
Move Edmonton to Enfield
Move Wimbledon to Merton.
Merge Paddington into Westminster.
Merge Battersea into Wandsworth.
Merge Clapham into Lambeth.
Merge Tottenham into Haringey.

Not sure if we should "make up" not explicitly shown boroughs like Hillingdon for London Heathrow Airport. --Tupka²¹⁷ 18:27, June 26, 2020 (UTC)

Locations should only have articles, if they appear in the comics. If Hillingdon doesn't appear in comics, then, no "make up".
What happened, to exist red links (in the origin locations) in the original post here? If Tupka217 or anyone has done something, then you should have been posted it here, as to keep the discussion updated (in my opinion). :) (The)Batmagoo(BatmanMagoo) (talk) 19:00, July 12, 2020 (UTC)

Those readlinks don't exist, but they have /Appearances categories. --Tupka²¹⁷ 19:11, July 12, 2020 (UTC)

Why not just have an article titled London, that contains sub-sections with the different locations? And each article would link to the location of the respective sub-section. (The)Batmagoo(BatmanMagoo) (talk) 05:54, July 13, 2020 (UTC)

I have no problem with that. --Tupka²¹⁷ 06:01, July 13, 2020 (UTC)

Unity Kincaid (New Earth) to Unity Kinkaid (New Earth)

Misspelling (Sandman Vol 2 1). - Nalka123 (talk) 12:41, July 5, 2020 (UTC)

Punchline (Prime Earth) to Alexis Kaye (Prime Earth)

I'm not the one who tagged it, but is there a source for the name Alexis Kaye? I'm not following the story to know if that's legit or not. --- Haroldrocks talk 21:05, July 5, 2020 (UTC)

It's not been confirmed in the comics yet but Tynion confirmed it in an interview with IGN here. Samohyeah (talk) 21:11, July 5, 2020 (UTC)

Since her real name has now been revealed her page should be labeled as such, correct? --1137a (AL) (Earth-1218) (talk) 23:01, July 9, 2020 (UTC)

I don't know. Usually, when we take information like this from a creator on Twitter, it's after the character's first arc, and the creator is offering info he wasn't able to fit into the story.

This case is different. in this case, Tynon is offering a preview, not an unshared memory. I'm sure Punchline's full name will be used in the comic before the current storyline is over. So why not just wait? - SuperFan24K (talk) 15:03, July 10, 2020 (UTC)

Justice League of America (DCeased) to Justice League (DCeased)

Sorry if this isn't as eloquent as it should be but here goes: DCeased's Justice League is no longer based in America, and in fact based on an entirely different planet called Earth-2, so I don't think keeping the America part is accurate. There's also the fact that so far (as least since their planetary move) they've only been referred too as the Justice League with no mention of the "Of America" part, they've also not been referred too as the shortened "JLA".--Mr Rinn (talk) 15:26, July 8, 2020 (UTC)

Yes to moving. MatteJohnny (talk) 15:29, July 8, 2020 (UTC)

My support too. I agree with the discussion on Tupka's wall. --- Haroldrocks talk 16:38, July 8, 2020 (UTC)

WildStorm Vol 1 to WildStorm! Vol 1

All sources I can find show the exclamation point as part of the title. Also, it doesn't have issues created yet, so it would be a good time to move it. -- SuperFan24K (talk) 16:16, July 9, 2020 (UTC)

Linear Men to Linear Men (New Earth)

I feel like this page should have a move Just to be clear on what reality they are from. Also The Legends are based on the Linear Men. — Makkat1 (talk) 18:11, July 10, 2020‎ (UTC)

I agree with the move. (By the way, as anyone know what happened to the team following Convergence? Is there a Linear Men (Prime Earth)? If there is, the current article will have to become a disambiguation one). (The)Batmagoo(BatmanMagoo) (talk) 18:49, July 12, 2020 (UTC)

Citation needed on that Legends part. I don't think it needs to be moved atm; we only do that if there are other universe versions. --Tupka²¹⁷ 18:55, July 12, 2020 (UTC)

"we only do that if there are other universe versions." What Liri Lee to Liri Lee (New Earth) what? Who is the admin that has 217 in his username and his not well informed (doesn't know the facts)? Tupka!!! :) (The)Batmagoo(BatmanMagoo) (talk) 19:11, July 12, 2020 (UTC)

What I said goes for teams, not characters. --Tupka²¹⁷ 22:59, July 26, 2020 (UTC)

Ray (Earth 10) to Langford Terill (Earth 10)

In Robert Venditti’s run on the Freedom Fighters they have somewhat revealed that The Ray of Earth 10 is apparently Langford Terrill AKA the First Ray. The reason as to why is because they have the original Black Condor, Human Bomb, and Doll Man in a flashback where they mention the lost of their members The Ray who could very well be Langford Terrill and Phantom Lady who could very well be the Sandra Knight. —- Makkat1 (talk) 18:12, July 10, 2020‎ (UTC)

Carter Hall (Lil Gotham) to Hawkman (Lil Gotham)

Also Shayera Hol (Lil Gotham). It's unclear why one has the human name, and one the Thanagarian. --Tupka²¹⁷ 13:10, July 18, 2020 (UTC)

Joan Fortune (Earth-Two) to Joan Fortune (New Earth)

She appears, albeit unnamed, in Young All-Stars #27 in the brief recap of the Wildcat story from Sensation Comics #10. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 18:11, July 19, 2020 (UTC)

Black Magician (Earth-Two) to Alessandro Cagliostro (New Earth)

This was actually the historical Alessandro Cagliostro who has enough DC (and Quality and probably Fawcett) appearances to warrant a page. I was going to make one until I noticed that this page already exists. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 19:00, July 19, 2020 (UTC)

Ben Broot (Earth-Two) to Benny Broot (Earth-Two)

He's never called Ben in the story, just Benny. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 13:20, July 20, 2020 (UTC)

Star Hunters to Star Hunters (New Earth)

There exists a comic series on the team so it makes sense to make this a disambiguation. —- Makkat1 (talk) 10:52, July 24, 2020‎ (UTC)

They're not New Earth. And making a disambig for this is pointless. It can just be a Distinguish. --Tupka²¹⁷ 14:58, July 24, 2020 (UTC)

Gerald Monroe (Earth-One) to Moonster (Earth-One)

His last name isn't used anywhere in the issue as far as I can tell. Answerguy fiction. --Tupka²¹⁷ 12:34, July 26, 2020 (UTC)

DC Super Hero Girls: Past Times at Super Hero High (Collection) to DC Super Hero Girls: Past Times at Super Hero High (Collected)

I wasn't familiar with collection naming conventions and onky adding "Collected" in brackets. Simple ignorance, which I hope will be rectified. MatteJohnny (talk) 21:55, July 26, 2020 (UTC)

Sons of Trigon

Jared (New Earth) to Wrath, son of Trigon (New Earth)
Gluttony (New Earth) to Gluttony, son of Trigon (New Earth)
James (New Earth) to Greed, son of Trigon (New Earth)
Jacob (New Earth) to Lust, son of Trigon (New Earth)
Jesse (New Earth) to Envy, son of Trigon (New Earth)
Jack (New Earth) to Sloth, son of Trigon (New Earth)

The current names aren't really helpful for finding or differentiating the characters. Plus, moving away from single name characters whenever possible should be the goal; I feel like my suggested naming scheme would be a successful balance. --- Haroldrocks talk 15:07, July 27, 2020 (UTC)

Lower case s on son i that case. --Tupka²¹⁷ 15:09, July 27, 2020 (UTC)

Fine by me. Modifying the suggestions to reflect the lower case 's'. I've always been in the "title case everything" camp, but I know I'm in the minority. :P --- Haroldrocks talk 23:31, July 30, 2020 (UTC)

Piranha (Prime Earth) to Joey Scroccone (Prime Earth)

Not sure if there's a source within the series, but John Rozum's personal blog has his name as Joey Scroccone. Link: http://johnrozum.blogspot.com/2011/08/static-shock-sneak-peak-at-villains.html
--- Haroldrocks talk 17:47, July 27, 2020 (UTC)

Gangbuster II (New Earth) to Ishmael (New Earth)

He never really is Gangbuster; he just used his shapeshifting powers to discredit the original. Kyletheobald (talk) 12:52, July 29, 2020 (UTC)

Ishmael (New Earth) to Ishmael II (New Earth)

To make room for the earlier guy. Kyletheobald (talk) 12:52, July 29, 2020 (UTC)

Saul Erdel (Prime Earth) to Mark Saul Erdel (Prime Earth)

There was no reason to move it. See talk page. - Nalka123 (talk) 16:06, July 30, 2020 (UTC)

Leonard (A.I.) (Arrowverse: Earth-74) to Leonard (Arrowverse: Earth-74)

Talk page. Double modifier not necessary. --- Haroldrocks talk 23:31, July 30, 2020 (UTC)

Hayoth to Hayoth (New Earth)

A Prime Earth version of the team appears in Doomsday Clock. Kyletheobald (talk) 13:27, July 31, 2020 (UTC)

Flash Forward TPB details that Manhattan's attempt to fix the timeline failed. It just split into another timeline instead. Hayoth hasn't even appeared in Prime Earth comics or mentioned. Similarly, I feel uncomfortable about Doomsday Clock events that are added to character pages, but no point in creating an issue over it. MatteJohnny (talk) 14:01, July 31, 2020 (UTC)

American Wilderness Frontier to American Colonial Frontier

The current term for the page isn't one I've seen used especially in textbooks or encyclopedias. The frontier is called the American frontier including the colonial era frontier including on Britannica. The name American Colonial Frontier should be used as it's very similar and more accurate. We can also use American frontier simply. MatteJohnny (talk) 14:27, August 1, 2020 (UTC)

"American Colonial Frontier" is less accurate than "American Wilderness Frontier," given that it is the setting for a series of stories set in (a) the French and Indian Wars, (b) the Revolutionary War, and (c) the post-Independence phases of early U.S. (and Canadian) history. In all three of these historical phases, many of the same DC adventure characters, especially Tomahawk, had their adventures and lived out their histories. The point of this page's existence is to provide a unified setting for the adventures of those characters, especially Tomahawk. Pre-war, wartime, and post-war frontier adventures all belong here. Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 04:20, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

Wilderness doesn't apply as it can be interpreted in a negative manner to Indians (see the meaning of wilderness). Colonialism didn't just end with British leaving. The taking and settling of Indian land by Americans was also colonialism. So "colonial frontier" is accurate. I've never heard the term "wilderness frontier" anywhere. Especially not in history books. Apart from colonial frontier the one used is simply "American frontier". The term includes all eras of frontiers. Wild West however has its own era unlike others and the competition was also with the Spanish/Mexican-era settlers. Wilderness frontier sounds made-up even if it isn't. MatteJohnny (talk) 14:44, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

>>Wilderness doesn't apply as it can be interpreted in a negative manner to Indians (see the meaning of wilderness).<<

Irrelevant. "Wilderness" was what Lewis and Clark and Boone and Crockett called it when they lived and worked and hunted and fought there. Tecumseh called it that too, just in a different language. And the inhabitants of that wilderness having (according to you) hostile attitudes, towards one another, doesn't invalidate their nomenclature.

>> Colonialism didn't just end with British leaving. <<

Prior to the British leaving, the American states were literally, and officially, colonies. After that they were not colonies. Did they think and act in a "Colonialist" manner? According to you they did. According to me, it makes no difference what opinions they had about each other, as long as they had a common term for the region where they lived. And they did.

>>The taking and settling of Indian land by Americans was also colonialism.<<

That's a load of post-hoc name-changing codswallop. What you now call "colonialism" was called (in their day) things like "expansionism" and "Manifest Destiny," which also was a load of codswallop. But THAT was the codswallop of THOSE times, and those places. They had their "narrative," you have yours. They used their terminology, you seek to impose yours over theirs. That's "colonialistic" thinking right there.

>> So "colonial frontier" is accurate. I've never heard the term "wilderness frontier" anywhere. Especially not in history books.<<

If I use the correct name for that type of argument, you'll be very insulted. But you see what you just did there, don't you?

>>Apart from colonial frontier the one used is simply "American frontier". The term includes all eras of frontiers. Wild West however has its own era unlike others and the competition was also with the Spanish/Mexican-era settlers. Wilderness frontier sounds made-up even if it isn't.<<

Our subject matter here is comic books. Sounding like a made-up name may be less of a disqualifier than you think. Time will tell. Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 17:45, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

Someone calling something as "wilderness" because they're out of civilization or not in an advanced civilization doesn't make it an official term. Because that's how you'll expect it to be defined as especially by white writers (native Americans actually did have permanent settlements and even nations). I have yet to see any example at all of "wilderness frontier" being used as an actual marker. That's something you conjectured and will need something beyond someone calling an uncivilized area or not advanced area as "wilderness".

Colonialism means a country excerting dominanace over other countries or even peoples. So defeinitely yes colonialism continued. Made-up names are okay as long as they're one applied by comic books. And I'm not accusing you of any dishonesty. You're just mistaken and presuming something as a fact when it isn't. MatteJohnny (talk) 18:27, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

"All names are made-up names." - Thor Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 18:37, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

By made-up you know I mean something that's purely derived by you. The Thirteen Colonies were called so because they colonized North America, the settlers were the colonialists not the colonialized. The ones colonialized were the Natives. American colonial frontier or just American frontier is an apt term. MatteJohnny (talk) 18:44, August 2, 2020 (UTC)

We're having an argument about nomenclature, as used in American fiction. And you've just negated your own argument. Your usage of "colonialism" here describes something that denotes no particular era. Because "colonialism," as you use it here, never ended. The "colonialist" policies and attitudes used by American white people, towards American red people in eastern North America, and later towards Puerto Ricans, Cubans, and Filipinos, and others, are NOT confined to the "American Colonial" era. But the American Colonial era itself has a real clear historical ending point, at the time of the American Revolution, when the actual, literal, official "Colonies" became instead "States." That's an event, with a specific chronology, that identifies a particular time and place.

And that era covers only about HALF of Tomahawk's career. Before and after the A.Rev, Tomahawk and his friends and enemies lived out in the woods. The Colonies changed their nomenclature, becoming States, but the forest did not change. Tomahawk and his chroniclers considered it a Wilderness. James Fenimore Cooper considered it a Wilderness, so did Meriwether Lewis. Doris Kearns Goodwin and Howard Zinn can call it whatever they want, but in American Literature a giant forest full of friendly AND hostile tribes, not to mention all those dinosaurs and giants, is a wild and dangerous place, i.e. is a Wilderness.

So, if you are that anxious to call it "Colonial" then you need to (a) devise a name for the era that was the setting for T.Hawk's post-A.Rev career, and (b) revisit all of those Tomahawk appearances to "correct" their locations to the new one. Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 11:09, August 3, 2020 (UTC)

Where exactly was "American Wilderness Frontier/Wilderness Frontier" used? Do I need to really inform you that calling an uncivilized area as "wilderness" or even the wilderness doesn't make it a name? Nowhere does Tomoahawk call it anything like "Wilderness Frontier"? Your whole claim of Tomahwak considering it Wilderness is baseless if you believe it means a territorial name. Anyone would call unsettled/less civilized land as wilderness.

You can simply use "American colonial frontier" about stories before British left. And alternatively you can have another title for the post-independent frontier. It's not a big deal. Britain wasn't the last European power on modern United States, but anyway colonial era is generally considered to end with independence. Though colonialism itseld itself didn't end. Thus I suggested simply using "American frontier" if you're so against the word colonial. But you don't even agree to that.

Your suggestions aren't based in facts while mine are. In fact there are many more alternatives better suited than what you've devised. First Nation territories/Indian territories/Native American territories etc. You don't seem to want a solution it seems. MatteJohnny (talk) 18:58, August 6, 2020 (UTC)

>>Anyone would call unsettled/less civilized land as wilderness.<<

Bingo. Good admission.

>>You can simply use "American colonial frontier" about stories before British left. And alternatively you can have another title for the post-independent frontier.<<

I can? You haven't.

>> It's not a big deal.<<

Obviously false, or you wouldn't still be flailing away at it.

>>Your suggestions aren't based in facts while mine are.<<

We're indexing works of fiction here. That's what makes J.F.Cooper relevant, and H.Zinn not relevant.

>>You don't seem to want a solution it seems.<<

I have a solution. I just don't like yours.Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 08:11, August 7, 2020 (UTC)

Hey if you think my admission is correct, you're just admitting using a title because someone calling uncivilized and/or less civilized land as wilderness. It's just what a person commonly uses to call such places. You don't like my solution (even though there are many alternative titles I suggested)? I don't like your current title. Since you won't budge and no point in talking anymore, let's see if someone else supports one or the other's preference. MatteJohnny (talk) 10:52, August 7, 2020 (UTC)

>> let's see if someone else supports one or the other's preference.<<

"That's what we've been doing, for six days now. So far nobody has seemed to see it your way. Stoop Davy Dave (talk) 11:24, August 7, 2020 (UTC)

You're omitting no one's supported you either. MatteJohnny (talk) 11:37, August 7, 2020 (UTC)

*Sigh*. Same rule as last argument applies. Early bird gets the worm. American Wilderness Frontier is clearly Stoop Davy Dave's project, and Dave has done most of the work to populate its content and has a valid reason for naming it the way he did. If he had chosen to name it American Colonial Frontier originally, I don't think there would've been much opposition either. Changing the name now seems pointless at best and mean-spirited at worst. --- Haroldrocks talk 13:31, August 7, 2020 (UTC)

I'm only opposing how he named it because that's not the name ever used in the comics. I simply think he is mistaken. But there doesn't seem to be any support for me about it. Very well. MatteJohnny (talk) 14:13, August 7, 2020 (UTC)

Purple Priestess (Earth-Two) to Sinestra (Earth-Two)

Real name. Kyletheobald (talk) 18:13, August 6, 2020 (UTC)

Is "Sinestra" her first name, last name, or whole name (mononym)? If it's her first name, I would be against this move, sine we are moving away from using first names for page names (when there is a code name to use instead). SuperFan24K (talk) 20:26, August 6, 2020 (UTC)

I agree that normally one name only characters are bad but Sinestra is a lot more unique and works as an identifier better than Karen or Dave do. Kyletheobald (talk) 21:28, August 6, 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Kyle about Sinestra being unique. Besides mononyms can't be covered under not using first names. MatteJohnny (talk) 11:03, August 7, 2020 (UTC)

I'm only objecting if it is her first name. If it is a mononym, I have no problem. SuperFan24K (talk) 14:46, August 7, 2020 (UTC)

Helspont (Prime Earth) to Artus (Prime Earth)

Real name. --- Haroldrocks talk 03:11, August 8, 2020 (UTC)

B-Rex (Dark Multiverse) to Bruce Wayne (Dark Multiverse: Batmanasaurus Rex)

We do see his universe in a flashback in the recent Death Metal one shot Makkat1 (talk) 0:12, August 8, 2020 (UTC)