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N8THGR852

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  • Bio Check out my comic review blog: NerdyN8sNotes.com / https://nerdyn8snotes.wordpress.com

    I am an up-and-coming editor entering the publishing world, hoping to become a developmental editor. If I could have, though, I would have majored in comic book culture and taught students about comic books. Alas. Still, working in publishing is a nice alternative. But my heart will always be aligned with comics.

    I love young heroes, and my DC specially is all things Titans-related. Any questions regarding Titans / Teen Titans / New Teen Titans — basically ANYthing Titans...I am your guy.
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  • Hey N8! I wanted to to take you up on your offer and message you on some Titans comics I'm reading. At your recommendation, I took a brief hiatus from NTT to read Dan Abnett's Titans Hunt mini-series.

    And wow, what a read! I thought I'd space it out over the course of a few days, but I enjoyed it so much I binge-read the all eight issues today! Naturally, I have some thoughts I'd like to share and some questions I'd like to ask.

    I'll start with the former.

    -I really enjoyed Abnett's writing. The dialogue between the Titans had some nice, witty banter, very endearing. Even Mister Twister's loud-mouthed, black charisma monologues were captivating. But the narration took it to another level for me. I loved that the narration tonally shifted from character to character. More straightforward yet reflective for Roy Harper, more poetic and epic for Gnarrk, and culminating in a storybook introduction to open the final issue! I look forward to reading more by Abnett.

    -I love this cast of characters! I've always been fond of Dick Grayson, but I was equally excited to see heroes I am familiar with, but have not had as much exposure to. Roy Haroer was immeditaelty recognizable, and upon further recollection, I realized I encountered Mal, Gnarrk, and Karen from the Teen Titans cartoon. Hawk and Dove I know from both their appearance in Justice League Unlimited and the live action TV show.

    Lilith was the only one I was unfamiliar with, but her power set makes me immediately interested in learning more about her. And of course Garth and Donna Troy! As much as I was frustrated in their inability to remember each other, I will admit their fight on the beach into the Teen Titans clubhouse was one of my favorite moments.

    -I appreciate how accessible this comic was (for the most part). Abnett seemed to be striking a balance between creating an understandable jumping-on point to help newer readers be more comfortable with diving into his Titans series while also paying tribute to long time fans of Titans who I am guessing were disappointed with the Titans being disassembled at this point in time. I would be interested in hearing how an experienced reader like yourself reacted.

    -The last panel! What an awesome reference to the imminent return of Wally West! I'm not ashamed to admit that it gave me chills, and I'm really excited to start reading "The Return of Wally West."


    Now, a few questions:

    -Mr. Twister ... who is he, exactly? The comic explained him well enough - demonic sorcerer trying to bring a more menacing demonic being to Earth through the Titans - but I have to believe Abnett chose this particular villain due to him having some connection to the Titans outside of this context. To add onto that, do you know who this mysterious demon Mister Twister was serving?

    -Going off of that, the plot, felt a little convoluted. Perhaps I wasn't reading carefully enough. I gather that he was using Mal's powers to draw the Titans together with his demonic amplifier. And I even understand (in a suspension of disbelief kind of way) that Twister was using some form of demonic magic to control the Titans and essentially use their life-energy to free his master. But why did the Titans suddenly forget everything? Was that Lilith who wiped their minds, even her own, so they forgot their identity as Titans, and thus were useless to Twister? The source and reason for their amnesia, and the world's amnesia at that, was a little unclear to me.

    -Lastly, I'm confused as to what the original Titans roster looked like. I know at least one incarnation of the team was first formed by Dick Grayson, Wally West, and Garth, with Roy Harper and Donna Troy. This comic seemed to indicate that there were ten original Titans, and I recall in my post from the other day you mentioned there was in fact 16 original members. Could you help me sort this out?


    I think that's all I have for now. I apologize for the long-winded nature of this message, please don't feel obligated to read all of it or respond to every question, simply what you feel inclined to or what you have time for, haha. I will be continuing with NTT issue #9 and Dan Abnett's Titans series, and if your offer still stands, I'm sure I'll have questions to ask and thoughts to voice.

    Thanks for your help! It is much appreciated!

    ~QQ

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    • Well, Quaintly Quilted (I'm going to shorten that to Quilty for my sake; enjoy your new nickname, ha), because I know you are the type who is willing to read a long message, I am willing to give you all the context you could ever need. So, prepare yourself for a long response. To answer your various questions, I am going to give you some historical and editorial context.

      To start, let me fill you in on the Titans history you missed by skipping the original series and diving straight into New Teen Titans.

      1. There are three issues that lead up to Teen Titans Vol 1 #1 (1966): The Brave and the Bold v1 #54, Showcase v1 #59, and The Brave and the Bold v1 #60.

      In BatB #54, Robin (Dick Grayson), Kid Flash (Wally West) and Aqualad (Garth) team up for the first time to face off against Mr. Twister. While the Teen Titans had not officially been formed yet and did not form in this issue, Mr. Twister is often considered the "first" or at least "proto" Titans villain. Titans Hunt was the first part of the Rebirth initiative, for which DC had many elements of pre-Flashpoint lore be folded into Prime Earth in some fashion. Abnett did his homework. Because his run was creating a re-imagined version of the "original" Titans, he used the villain known as being the Titans' first, Mister Twister. Pre-Flashpoint, Mister Twister was just a human with a magic staff that allowed him to control the weather, creating thunderstorms with pouring rain and tornadoes he could control. He could also project lightning from either his storm clouds or his staff, and he could create a force field.

      For Prime Earth, Abnett decided to revamp Twister and have him be a demon trapped outside of the mainstream universe. Back in the day, he attempted to get into the mainstream universe again by manipulating Herald (Mal Duncan), who had spatial manipulation abilities. Twister could project a mirage of himself into the main world. Abnett gave Twister mind manipulation/possession powers, which he did not have in previous incarnations but made sense given the plot of this title. Twister used these to try to force Mal into opening up a rift to allow a demon armada onto Earth from the dimension in which he was trapped. The ruler of that dimension claimed they could help Twister fully realize himself in physical form on Earth, as opposed to his ability of sending a simple projection of himself.

      The Teen Titans defeated him, but to do, Lilith (Lilith Clay) had to use her alpha-class telepathic powers to mind-wipe everyone on Earth, including the Titans members. That is one of the most impressive feats of telepathic prowess in DC history, as she even mind-wiped other psionic characters. Years later, the Titans began to recover their memories, and Twister was able to telepathically link to Mal Duncan again, which led to the events you read during the present-day story of Titans Hunt.

      As for Twister's master and who that is, you will learn as you read Titans (Rebirth), so don't worry. It will be answered. However, Abnett revealed that the person he made be the master of Twister (and another villain the Titans face in the Rebirth title named Key) was not the character he had originally planned. As Abnett loves borrowing from established lore, I want to think he had planned for Twister's master to be Antithesis, a being from another dimension that longed to gain physical form on Earth. Mister Twister (Bromwell Stikk) had a connection to Antithesis, as the entity had empowered him and transformed him into another supervillain named the Gargoyle, who clashed with the Titans on a couple of occasions. And because Antithesis wanted to take physical form on Earth, I feel that Abnett wanted to use Antithesis, which brings me to my next point.

      You say the plot of Titans Hunt was a little convoluted. I can understand what you mean, but let me offer a possible explanation why that was. See, Titans Hunt was originally slated to be 12 issues, not eight. However, DC decided that they wanted it to be over by summer 2016, as they had decided to go through with the Rebirth initiative. Abnett, though, had already finished the first six issues by the time they made that choice, so the writer was forced to cram his last six issues of content into two. If you pay attention upon rereading the title, you will see that the plot progression from issues #1-6 feels one way, whereas issues #7 and #8 felt a little rushed. Now you know why. Now, this is purely speculation based on what I know about Titans lore and about Abnett as a writer, but I speculate that Abnett may had planned to use Antithesis in the finale of Titans Hunt, as Antithesis was the Titans first villain, chronologically, in the pre-Flashpoint timeline (I will explain more on that further down). Even if that's not the case, the story should have had at four more issues, which would have made the conclusion be a little more natural. It may have even allowed Abnett to actually explain a little better than he was able to. Plus, we would have seen more content for Gnarrk and some other Titans who don't necessarily get a lot of appearances, which I would have loved. So yes, part of me truly wishes he could have had all 12 issues, but when I keep in mind that Abnett suddenly had to wrap up his storyline with only two issues when he planned for six, well, it makes me respect his writing ability—as the story didn't end poorly, just a little more abruptly than planned.

      2. You ask about the original roster. I'm going to explain the Titans publication history a bit further, as I started above but got sidelined with the natural explanations of Twister and Titans Hunt.

      As I said, BatB #54 had Dick, Wally and Garth team up for the first time. Then, all of a sudden, Showcase v1 #59 was the first (publication history-wise) appearance of the Teen Titans! Robin, Kid Flash, Aqualad, and Wonder Girl (Donna Troy) just appeared out of nowhere as a team. The formation of the team happened beforehand, off-panel. So, as far as we knew, the Teen Titans was founded by those four. They faced off against criminal rockstars named the Flips. The TT have another adventure in BatB #60 against the Separated Man, a supervillain. Then, the team gets their own title, starting with Teen Titans #1.

      As for the Teen Titans series itself, it can be split into what I refer to as three "waves" (an unofficial term, but I feel you will understand that the points of separation are valid): Issues #1-24, issues #25-43, and issues #44-53.

      Wave One is referred to as the "Teeny Bopper" era. All 24 issues take place in the Silver Age, which ended at the start of the new decade (the '70s). So, all 24 issues are published in the '60s. The Teen Titans start out as Peace Corps volunteers and go on missions here and there, mostly stopping crime rather than supervillains. Some criminals had costumes and monikers (Mad Mod, Captain Tiger, Scorcher, and some others), but most of them did not have any powers or anything. Of course, that's not necessary. Anyhow, the issues are filled with the members (over)using '60s teenage lingo. So the whole era is super cheesy, but if you go in knowing that, the stories have their own charm, for sure. During this wave, Speedy (Roy Harper) appears and helps the team in issues #4 and #11. In issue #19, Aqualad takes a leave of absence to babysit Aquababy during a series of stories taking place in the Aquaman title. At the same time, Speedy shows up and decided to be a full-time Titan from there on. The Teen Titans have a couple superhero team-ups with other young characters, including Beast Boy and Hawk and Dove.

      Note that during Wave One, the Teen Titans face off against Ding Dong Daddy, who was simply a criminal pre-Flashpoint. You may remember him from the animated series. Post-Flashpoint, Abnett re-imagined him to be a mech-mage and merge with his car. That was a cool way of updating him into a formidable enemy. Honey Bun was originally a robot controlled by a criminal, but it was not humanoid in the least. It was mostly a water tank with legs. Abnett took the robot aspect and name to create the PE Honeybun (one word instead of two), and he made her an android of sorts. It was a neat pairing to have with the updated Ding Dong Daddy, renamed D-Daddy.

      In issue #25, the first Titans issue set in the Bronze Age, the four Titans meet Lilith (Lilith Clay) at at a discotheque she is working at, and she uses her precognitive powers to predict that they will unwittingly cause the death of an innocent life. Later, the Titans and Hawk (Hank Hall) and Dove (Don Hall) are stopping criminals in a reckless way that ends with a peace-promoting philanthropist to be fatally wounded by a stray bullet. As a result, Robin leaves the Titans, while Kid Flash, Wonder Girl, Speedy, Lilith, Hawk and Dove solidify as a new roster of the Teen Titans. One of the richest men in the world, Loren Jupiter (respectfully known as Mr. Jupiter) offers to be the Titans benefactor. Thus begins Wave Two of the series.

      During Wave Two, the Titans (and DC at large) began putting emphasis on characters being heroes as civilians. So, the six abandon their heroic uniforms and begin adventures as civilians wearing purple jumpsuit uniforms that Mr. Jupiter provided. And they declare that they won't use their powers anymore. Shortly after the new roster forms, they encounter a fellow teenager in issue #26 named Mal Duncan, who helps the team fend off a street gang of thugs to save his young sister, Cindy. The Titans and Mal spend time together, and Mal wins a champion boxing match against a thug. Mal is then invited to join the Titans. He had no powers or superhero name. He simply had his boxing skills and the heart of a hero, whose bravery ended up shown time and time again. Naturally, Mal was created to represent the purpose of this time in publishing (no powers, no costume, no moniker). Plus, he diversified the team as its first black member.

      Aqualad visits the team in issues #28-29, unaware of the changes the team has undergone. He convinces them to use their powers, costumes and names again. The team of seven help Aqualad and Aquagirl face off against Ocean Master. Afterward, Hawk and Dove decide to leave the team and return home to D.C. The remaining five have a couple more adventures until Mal Duncan and Kid Flash accidentally travel through time and bring back a teenaged Cro-Magnon to the present. Lilith establishes a psychic connection with him, and she and Robin (who returns to help in this situation) help civilize him through a combination of telepathy and literal teaching. Identifying himself as Gnarrk and being given the civilian name John Gnarrk, the now gentlemanly and English-speaking Gnarrk stays with the Titans as a member, despite not going on many missions or otherwise being shown. His strength is superhuman, as he is even able to best Wonder Girl in strength. Robin also decides to rejoin the team following his helping Gnarrk learn to pass as a modern-day human. While everyone else had a costume/moniker, Mal Duncan continued being a Titan using his real name as his public persona. His uniform of choice was either a purple, gray or tan jumpsuit. This new team of seven (mostly six, as I said Gnarrk often stayed home or wasn't shown) had many adventures with Mr. Jupiter continuing to be their benefactor. After issue #43, though, the title went on hiatus for three years in real-time, which is why it's the end of Wave Two. In-universe, the team disbanded sometime after #43, the groups members doing this and that on their own.

      Wave Three begins with issue #44. In this issue, Mal Duncan, who had been maintaining the Titans HQ all this time, sends a call out to the past Titans members to reunite to fight against a threat. Robin, Kid Flash, Wonder Girl, and Speedy heed the call but are captured. Mal, underestimated, is spared. He makes the villain regret this, though, as Mal raids the Titans storage supplies and finds equipment to re-emerge as the superhero Guardian. Guardian, who has superhuman strength thanks to an exoskeleton and superhuman durability when using the shield, defeats the supervillain on his own. Thus, Mal proves himself even further as a Titan, now officially a superhero. This makes Mal Duncan DC's first black superhero, which is a big deal that is undersold when it comes to Mal, in my opinion.

      Aqualad rejoins the team in the following issue. Speedy teases Mal for adopting another hero's moniker as his own. Around this time, Mal obtains a mystical horn he earned by defeating the angel Azrael in hand-to-hand combat. The Gabriel's Horn projects sonic blasts and can create miracles, causing Mal to be able to manipulate events to his advantage. Thus, Mal adopts a new costumed identity as Hornblower. Next, Robin invites Joker's Daughter (Duela Dent) to join the Teen Titans. After proving herself to the team, she changes her heroic costume and moniker to Harlequin. Shortly after, Bumblebee (Karen Beecher), Mal's girlfriend, joins the team. Note that in Titans Hunt, PE Karen has powers that come from being a metahuman. Pre-Flashpoint, Karen was a genius who built her own power suit that simulated superhuman abilities. Those powers didn't include size manipulation either, as shown in her animated appearances. Read Titans (Rebirth) to learn her current power set, though.

      Anyhow, this roster of the Teen Titans (totaling eight) ended up assisted by a second branch of Titans during the three-part finale of Teen Titans #50-52. This new branch, Titans West, is formed in issue #50. Titans West consists of some returning Titans such as Hawk, Dove, Lilith, and Gnarrk, but it also gives three other heroes Titans status for the first time, including Bat-Girl (Betty Kane), Golden Eagle (Charley Parker), and Beast Boy (Gar Logan). Mal also becomes Guardian again.

      I call issues #50-52 the finale even though there is an issue #53. Issue #53 is a sort of epilogue that gives us something that had been missing for a decade and a half…an origin story for the Teen Titans. So, issue #53 reveals how the Teen Titans formed. Furthermore, it revealed that Speedy was actually a founding member! So, the founding five are Robin, Kid Flash, Aqualad, Wonder Girl, and Speedy. Roy simply decided that while he would be a Titan, he would only be part-time and help out when he can. This retroactively means that his instances of helping the team out in issues #4 and #11 were as a Titan! We just didn't know until issue #53. From here on, these five are often referred to as the founding five throughout Titans history thereafter.

      The Teen Titans and Titans West both disbanded off-panel shortly after the Teen Titans title ended.

      When I say there are 16 "original" members, I mean that there are 16 Titans who were members of the original incarnation of the team. The first five are "founding Titans," but the other 11 are "originals," too. Aquagirl (Tula) is the 16th, being retroactively given Titan status as an honorary member for her times assisting the team. Honorary means that they are full-fledged members, just ones who were not part of an active roster.

      So, the 16 original members are thus: Robin, Kid Flash, Aqualad, Wonder Girl, Speedy, Lilith, Hawk, Dove, Mal Duncan/Guardian/Hornblower, Gnarrk, Joker's Daughter/Harlequin, Bumblebee, Bat-Girl, Golden Eagle, Beast Boy and Aquagirl.

      You may know that the event called Crisis on Infinite Earths created a new mainstream universe mostly based on the previous named New Earth. With the creation of New Earth, some history changed. Post-Crisis history made it so that Harlequin and Gnarrk weren't members in the New Earth timeline (that's fine; as they still are original members to me). Post-Crisis Titans history also made it so that Betty Kane, now Bette Kane with an 'E', was never Bat-Girl but instead became the superhero Flamebird. Golden Eagle and Bumblebee were given redesigns and upgraded abilities. Mal Duncan still had his adventures with the Teen Titans under his civilian identity, but he never became Guardian or Hornblower post-Crisis. Instead, he built a tech-based Gabriel's Horn that projected sonic blasts and had spatial manipulation functions and started operating as Herald. So, NE Herald has sound and space powers via external means (equipment). PE Herald has sound and space powers via internal means (metahuman abilities).

      3. Okay, so I should have probably broken all of that up into more points, as I thought I would have a third point. Instead, I'm using this bolded number to separate this final part of the message from the rest. I am not sure if I ended up touching upon everything you had questions about, but I am here. So use me as you need me and ask me anything you want about Titans or give me as many comments of your own about Titans that you may have.

      Edit: Oh, I remembered that I didn't tell you who all were founders of the Teen Titans in PE. Well, like in Earth-One, the origin story of the Teen Titans in Prime Earth has not been shown yet. The earliest roster of the team we have seen chronologically had the normal founding five, plus Lilith. All other additions to PE's "original" incarnation came afterward. Perhaps Lilith is a founding member in PE. Maybe she's not. One day, we may know.

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    • Hey N8! Thank you for the detailed overview of Pre-Crisis Titans lore, that was very insightful and definitely clears up much of my confusion from Titans Hunt. I've saved it to my computer for future reference. I'm actually interested in reading those comics now to experience them for myself sometime down the road!

      -I had forgotten that Mal's powers included spatial manipulation. That makes more sense as to why Twister needed him so badly, since it was only through Mal that he could open the portal to let his master in (I can't wait to find out who that mysterious demon was!).

      -The fact that Abnett originally envisioned a 12-issue mini series instead of eight issues only increases my appreciation of Titans Hunt. I assumed the quickened pacing at the end was just Abnett wanting to get to the climax, but his story was still really well-told and complete despite having to cut out 1/3 of his original plan.

      -I thought that was Ding Dong Daddy! The name change to Daddy-D threw me off, but his unique speech definitely reminded me of the DDD from the cartoon. Man, that's such a cool redesign of a villain who never struck me as all that impressive (but boy, I sure thought that episode was hilarious!).

      -Lilith pulling off a telepathic feat of that magnitude is shocking to me, given the DC Universe has no shortage of powerful telepaths who weren't immune to Lilith's mass mind wipe. Definitely looking forward to seeing more of her.

      -You answered by question regarding the original Titans throughout your post, so I don't have much more to add there for now.


      Additionally, I thought let you know I've now read through issue #15 of NTT, I think the series has only gotten better since the end of the original Trigon story (not that those first six issues weren't fantastic in their own right). These comics take me longer to read than the Titans Hunt issues did, so I'm progressing slowly (but surely). Some things that stood out for me in the post-Trigon issues:

      -#7 and #8 are my favorite two issues from the series thus far, in no small part due to Cyborg. While I of course understood his frustration in the first six issues, I was relieved to see him reconcile with his father before Silas passed. That epilogue in #7 struck me on a personal level, and although seeing the Titans take on the Fearsome Five in their own headquarters was awesome, those final pages were the best.

      Cyborg actually may be my favorite Titan right now (or Gar - more on him later). I loved that moment from #8 where he finds a group of kids with prosthetic limbs he soon volunteers with, which I believe an early episode of the cartoon adapted ( if it wasn't obvious, I have very fond memories of coming home from school and watching the Teen Titans cartoon when I was younger, and seeing the parallels between the comics and the show makes me appreciate the faithfulness of the show's adaption of the material).

      I also liked Wally in #8. His struggle over wanting a normal life feels more meaningful because he actually has such a normal life when he's not with the Titans, as compared to someone like Dick Grayson who's life has been marked by tragedy and super-heroics. But Wally has loving parents he turns to for advice, he goes to school, seems to have a friend group outside of the superhero community ... I'm interested in seeing where his story goes.

      -#9 and #10 felt like pretty standard superhero-supervillain stories. Not that I'm complaining, because they were super cool! The Puppeteer was a fun villain (perhaps an inspiration for the cartoon's Puppet King episode?), but I especially enjoyed seeing the return of Slade Wilson, the fact that he can keep up with the likes of Starfire is very impressive. Is this series his first appearance in comics? And man, did issue #10 leave off on a pretty serious note, with Slade almost killing Gar. Plus, it was cool to see more of Hive, who I'm guessing are soon going to play a much larger role.

      -#11 and #12 were probably my least favorites thus far. It felt like Wolfman and Perez got too caught up in the novelty of writing about the Greek Titans in a series that features a superhero group called the Titans, to the point where the Teen Titans felt like supporting characters in their own book. The writing was still engaging, with an interesting take on the resolution of the conflict between the Greek gods and Titans, and Perez drew some epic actions scenes between the Gods and the Titans, but the story went too far in a different direction.

      And Donna's lovesickness for Hyperion was ... awkward. It felt unnecessary and diminished her character throughout these issues. Perhaps I'm biased since I adore her healthy relationship with Terry Long (I do think Wolfman's handling of the aftermath in #13 was well-handled by means of Terry's character), but the whole scenario left a sour taste.

      -Thankfully, #13 - #15 were awesome! I loved Season 5 of the cartoon with the Doom Patrol and the Brotherhood of Evil, so seeing a 3-part story about them was a treat! Madame Rogue and General Zahl are pretty easy-to hate villains (Rogue is a little more sympathetic, but Zahl was an actual Nazi for crying out loud! My goodness, they literally massacred a small country), but the story was engaging and epic through and through.

      Gar is probably my favorite Titan other than Cyborg, mainly because of these issues. It was nice to see the beginnings of Gar and Vic's friendship, and even more compelling to see the usually quick witted, flirtatious Gar let down his comedic barrier and show a very raw, vulnerable side of himself. His quest for vengeance culminating in his accidental killing of Rogue was artfully written.

      I did notice though that while he was chasing after Rogue, Gar turned into mythical creatures, like a giant seas serpent? Was he always able to do that, or was that a result of him being exposed to the Amazons' "purple ray?"


      That's where I left off. The next few issues seem to focus on Starfire, which is exciting considering Wolfman has been building her up for some major story throughout these past issues. I may take a break here though and finally start reading "The Return of Wally West." I'll leave another message with any thoughts or questions I have.

      Thanks N8! I'd love to hear your thoughts on these early NTT issues!

      ~QQ

      P.S. - "Quilty" is a fine nickname, haha. I'm not particularly attached to this username, so call me whatever is easiest.

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  • Thank you for the recommended reading. It's been very helpful. I just finished her early Batman/Detective Comics stuff. My ranking of the first 6 stories are Batman #141, Batman #153, Batman #139, Batman #159, Detective Comics #233, Batman #144.

    • 141 was my favorite due to her saving everyone from the Moth
    • 153's 3-part story was engaging and fun to read
    • 139 introduced her and had her save everyone twice
    • 159 didn't have a lot of Betty but I did like her role and the plot was intriguing
    • 233 silly but enjoyable plot, she's not in it too much but she did help save the day
    • 144 I hated how they played her crush on Robin to death. It was stupid

    If you'd like to talk on Twitter, I'm @tsukiakari1203

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    • In some ways. I think a Batgirl was bound to happen anyhow. The idea around Barbara Gordon becoming Batgirl was independent of any of contribution Betty Kane made. It's possible that Betty's existence helped creators decide how they would shape Barbara's character. But I do think a Batgirl would have been created, even if Betty had never been created. Batwoman may have had a stronger impact. Unfortunately, I have not read enough sources that discuss how creators/editors at the time settled on Barbara's character and how Kathy (and by extension Betty) may or may not have contributed to Barbara's creation. There may be sources out there on it. There may not be. Sadly, not all creators publicly put out that sort of information.

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    • I do wonder about the creative processes that went into characters back then.

      It is weird going back and reading these stories that have Betty and Bruce interacting, I’m used to the cousin retcon. I also noticed that the Kane family seems to love using the names Elizabeth and Katherine. It’s kinda odd. I know the Elizabeths were named after Bob Kane’s wife, no idea where Katherine came from though.

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  • Hey N8, I had some questions about your Titans recommendations.

    Since I'm currently caught up with the New Teen Titans trades, I'm thinking on skipping ahead to Geoff John's run (which I've seen you recommend).

    I was wondering if there are any Titans related comics you'd recommend that were published in between these two eras. Specifically ones that are collected in trades.

    Also, does John's run have any spoilers for future NTT issues? If it does, I might just wait.

    Thanks, Leostales

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    • Wow, you truly do go above and beyond the call of duty when answering questions. Thank you so much.

      3 years is awhile, but that should definitely give me enough time to read Young Justice. I already own issues 60, 61, and 70 so its no loss to me if they leave those out.

      I was worried I'd have to read Johns' run to appreciate Titans, but it looks like I don't, so I'll be able to dive in once I've read Titans Hunt.

      I think thats all the questions I have, thanks for the help.

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    • No worries. Feel free to follow-up if you have further questions down the road. I also wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on Titans Hunt and/or Titans or Teen Titans (Rebirth versions) as you read them. And, of course, if you have any questions about those series, feel free to shoot them my way.

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  • Hi N8, I just finished the first issue of the New Teen Titians. Thank you for the recommendation and the information. It is an awesome read. I can tell that I am really going to enjoy this series. I hope you are well.

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    • Hey, Mack. I thought I'd check in to see how far you have gotten in New Teen Titans this last month. Hope you're well.

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    • Hey, thanks for checking in N8. I’m currently reading issue #3, definitely looking forward to that surprise in issue #8. This series is really enjoyable; I appreciate the recommendation. Thank you; I’m well. I hope you’re well too, my friend.

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  • Hey N8! This morning I started reading Nigthwing: Old Friends, new enemies. And about 5 minutes ago I ended "The secret Origin of Nigthwing" and man… taht issue/story… it's the thing taht comes rigth in time on the perfect momento so I gotta thank you. Yes... we would be focusing on Roy, but well… Dick is my favourite carácter, and you gifted me with this. On that comic he's saying that he's 20, and taht doesn't know what to do with his life… It was just so relatable. How he takes a look at his old life… how he says "you don't know if you can't fly, unless you take the risk of falling".

    It migth be one of my favourite Nigthwing issues/stories at this point. Idk it came at the perfect time, thanks =)

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    • Sure thing! I'm starting exams so for a couple of weeks I probably won't read much. But everytime I do I'll drop you a message.

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    • Hey, Blais, how's the Roy Harper reading coming along? I thought I'd check in. Hope you're doing well.

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  • Hey N8! I recently finished reading the 2nd trade of Teen Titans by Geoff Johns. I'm going to post it. Should I put spoiler alert? Or post it just like that?

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    • If you're doing a review, you don't necessarily need to do the huge "Spoiler" tag thing. That's usually reserved for comics that are less than a year old. But if you wanted to note in the introduction of your post that there will be spoilers for anyone who hasn't read it yet, you can. You just don't need all the ***SPOILERS*** stuff with all the dots and lines and everything between your intro and your review. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

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    • A gentle reminder. I've posted the review.

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    • Hey Roger, you mentioned that you may be picking up the first trade for New Teen Titans and write a review on it for the board since you were waiting for more Outsiders and TTv3 trades. Are you still considering that? I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on the trade.

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    • Hey Roger, I thought I'd pop in to see how your Titans readings have been progressing, assuming you've read more since we last touched base. Being stuck at home has made me stir-crazy, which makes me want to talk about comics more, ha. Hope you're doing well.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Working on another FANDOM post and I ran into an issue. Grimm told me that you've read Erik Larsen's Aquaman run from the 2000's and I have a quick question. Do you know the exact name of the team Lagoon Boy, Sheeva, and Blubber are members of? I've seen it as both Landlubbers and Landlovers both on here and on other sites and I can't seem to find a definitive answer.

    Thanks!

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    • It's the strangest thing. I used several of your suggestions when I was writing it. I'm using Deep Blue, Neptune Perkins, Tula, Koryak, and Lagoon Boy (the reason for the Landlovers situation).

      While researching the semantics of the team's name, I read a good chunk of Aquaman Vol 5 on DC Universe (it has the whole run). While reading, I discovered Noble, who I feel is a very interesting character. I'm planning on reading the whole run, as both Koryak and Deep Blue make their debuts. Plus, it'll give me the opportunity to leave more about Aquaman and his supporting cast.

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    • I highly recommend the entirety of Aquaman Vol 5.

      + David's run changed Aquaman's portrayal into one that was used for a long, long time. David facilitated Garth's transition from Aqualad to Tempest. He evolved the character of Dolphin to levels much, much higher than she had exhibited before. She became really fleshed out. David created Koryak and Deep Blue, two significant characters in the Aqua mythos with ties to the larger DC mythos. And he created a bunch of other fun supporting characters, like Letifos, Guardian of Hy-Brasil, Spought, A.J., and others. And he brought back other lesser characters and gave them more, like Nuada. Most importantly, though, he really fleshed out the history of Atlantis, adding many new ancient cities and civilization and -- well, it's great what he does for the Aqua-mythos.

      + Abnett's run gave closure to A.J. and brought back Mera. Furthermore, Abnett is the one responsible for giving Mera her "bad@$$" personality that she has mostly been maintaining since then up to now.

      + Larsen's run introduced the Landlovers, especially Lagoon Boy, Blubber, and Sheeva. Larsen also introduced Noble, who is a main character in his run (but not anywhere else). Larsen brought back Arthur's mother. Importantly, Larsen married Garth and Dolphin and had Dolphin become pregnant.

      + Jurgens' run had Garth's baby (Cerdian) being born and then a whole war was fought over it. Tempest was almost as much of a main character in Jurgens' run as Aquaman was, and I love it for that. Tempest was kick-tail in that run.

      Final Note: With Neptune Perkins, I imagine him more likely making an appearance in the Aquaman movie as "Senator Perkins," simply a senator on the surface who is name-dropped. That would be nice.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • There's just one detail about moving the images. Make sure to edit the information of every file so that the (Prime Earth) tag for Damian is changed to (New Earth). Like what I did here.

    Let me know if you need help.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Thanks for dropping that 'I hate superman... no I don't' thread.

    There's a few weird patterns in that particular OP's interactions with three other wiki members (and the timing of their on-line presence) who were suddenly all over the board for just the last two days - (and 3 days exactly one month ago) making me think they're the same user.

    Just here to 'second' any second thoughts you might have about the last 2 days posts.

    Thanks, RC

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    • I believe trolls tend to put far too much effort into their "work" (trolling), so I wager what you suggest is certainly possible. I shall try to keep an eye out, but I feel like people of that nature like to appear, cause mayhem, and then disappear for long periods of time. So even if these instances have been moments of trolling, I am sure they won't last for long.

      All the same, I understand your annoyance.

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    • Appreciate.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Hey N8!

    I'm working on a project and came across an issue. I know that Kyle Rayner was a member of the Titans, but I can't find the exact team that he was apart of. I've gone over several pages for the Titans, but I can't find him in the 'Former Members' section.

    Any and all assistance is appreciated.

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    • Great!

      And I too like "Did you Know...?" over ranking lists as well. Less chance for bias both personal and general.

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    • Indeed. I enjoy learning factual information about comic characters, and those type of "Did you know..?" articles do that far better than the ranking ones -- mostly due to the lack of (or less frequent use of) bias.

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    • A FANDOM user
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