FANDOM

N8THGR852

Discussions Moderator
  • Bio Check out my comic review blog: NerdyN8sNotes.com / https://nerdyn8snotes.wordpress.com

    I am an up-and-coming editor entering the publishing world, hoping to become a developmental editor. If I could have, though, I would have majored in comic book culture and taught students about comic books. Alas. Still, working in publishing is a nice alternative. But my heart will always be aligned with comics.

    I love young heroes, and my DC specially is all things Titans-related. Any questions regarding Titans / Teen Titans / New Teen Titans — basically ANYthing Titans...I am your guy.
  • [Show More]
A FANDOM user
  Loading editor
  • Hey N8! I wanted to to take you up on your offer and message you on some Titans comics I'm reading. At your recommendation, I took a brief hiatus from NTT to read Dan Abnett's Titans Hunt mini-series.

    And wow, what a read! I thought I'd space it out over the course of a few days, but I enjoyed it so much I binge-read the all eight issues today! Naturally, I have some thoughts I'd like to share and some questions I'd like to ask.

    I'll start with the former.

    -I really enjoyed Abnett's writing. The dialogue between the Titans had some nice, witty banter, very endearing. Even Mister Twister's loud-mouthed, black charisma monologues were captivating. But the narration took it to another level for me. I loved that the narration tonally shifted from character to character. More straightforward yet reflective for Roy Harper, more poetic and epic for Gnarrk, and culminating in a storybook introduction to open the final issue! I look forward to reading more by Abnett.

    -I love this cast of characters! I've always been fond of Dick Grayson, but I was equally excited to see heroes I am familiar with, but have not had as much exposure to. Roy Haroer was immeditaelty recognizable, and upon further recollection, I realized I encountered Mal, Gnarrk, and Karen from the Teen Titans cartoon. Hawk and Dove I know from both their appearance in Justice League Unlimited and the live action TV show.

    Lilith was the only one I was unfamiliar with, but her power set makes me immediately interested in learning more about her. And of course Garth and Donna Troy! As much as I was frustrated in their inability to remember each other, I will admit their fight on the beach into the Teen Titans clubhouse was one of my favorite moments.

    -I appreciate how accessible this comic was (for the most part). Abnett seemed to be striking a balance between creating an understandable jumping-on point to help newer readers be more comfortable with diving into his Titans series while also paying tribute to long time fans of Titans who I am guessing were disappointed with the Titans being disassembled at this point in time. I would be interested in hearing how an experienced reader like yourself reacted.

    -The last panel! What an awesome reference to the imminent return of Wally West! I'm not ashamed to admit that it gave me chills, and I'm really excited to start reading "The Return of Wally West."


    Now, a few questions:

    -Mr. Twister ... who is he, exactly? The comic explained him well enough - demonic sorcerer trying to bring a more menacing demonic being to Earth through the Titans - but I have to believe Abnett chose this particular villain due to him having some connection to the Titans outside of this context. To add onto that, do you know who this mysterious demon Mister Twister was serving?

    -Going off of that, the plot, felt a little convoluted. Perhaps I wasn't reading carefully enough. I gather that he was using Mal's powers to draw the Titans together with his demonic amplifier. And I even understand (in a suspension of disbelief kind of way) that Twister was using some form of demonic magic to control the Titans and essentially use their life-energy to free his master. But why did the Titans suddenly forget everything? Was that Lilith who wiped their minds, even her own, so they forgot their identity as Titans, and thus were useless to Twister? The source and reason for their amnesia, and the world's amnesia at that, was a little unclear to me.

    -Lastly, I'm confused as to what the original Titans roster looked like. I know at least one incarnation of the team was first formed by Dick Grayson, Wally West, and Garth, with Roy Harper and Donna Troy. This comic seemed to indicate that there were ten original Titans, and I recall in my post from the other day you mentioned there was in fact 16 original members. Could you help me sort this out?


    I think that's all I have for now. I apologize for the long-winded nature of this message, please don't feel obligated to read all of it or respond to every question, simply what you feel inclined to or what you have time for, haha. I will be continuing with NTT issue #9 and Dan Abnett's Titans series, and if your offer still stands, I'm sure I'll have questions to ask and thoughts to voice.

    Thanks for your help! It is much appreciated!

    ~QQ

      Loading editor
    • View all 9 replies
    • Hey N8. Sorry for the delay, but I have some time now to sit down and talk about Titans. First, to address your comments:

      -Thanks for the detailed explanation on the title change, I have saved your explanation to my computer for future reference. I'm curious, is your ability to clearly delineate the Titans' publication history owed to your career in publishing or your general passion for Titans knowledge?

      -I have also saved your thoughts on the NTT covers. I agree that our views on the covers are often informed by our appreciation of the story within. As such, I'll hold off for now on responding to your comments regarding your favorite covers, and instead address them as I get to the issues you listed. That way, I can understand your appreciation of each cover better. I just don't want you to think I've ignored your comments on them.

      -You would think that, as an English minor, I would be able to correctly differentiate "Rouge" from "Rogue." Tis a sad state of affairs (in all seriousness, feel free to correct my spelling or grammar; I know that such observations bother some people, but I just see it as an opportunity to improve my writing).

      Anyways, I did not know that about Madame Rouge. Upon reflection, such an explanation is perhaps more faithful to Wolfman and Perez's intention during her death. I have a tendency to read too much into things, so I appreciate your patience if I over-eagerly propose my own theory or interpretation without understanding the full context.


      Now, I've finally read through "The Return of Wally West" story arc from Dan Abnett's Titans. Additionally, I've also read through #20 of New Teen Titans. I wrestled with the idea of combining my thoughts on these into one message, but I decided the conversation would feel less crammed and more organic if I separated them.

      Here are my thoughts on "The Return of Wally West":

      -I took your advice and read the DC Comics Rebirth issue that saw Barry help Wally escape the Speed Force. The issue was a little confusing to me, as I didn't recognize several of the characters Wally attempts to contact, but some light research clarified that. The reunion between Barry and Wally was very touching.

      Now, the ending made no sense to me at first. It felt like a big reveal that I simply didn't understand. I did some digging, and this is how I understand it:

      The DC Universe, and by extent the Titans, had their timeline reset by 10 years, in which events from their past lives (New Earth) are similar yet differ slightly in their current timeline (Prime Earth). This tampering was the orchestration of Dr. Manhattan, an omnipotent being from a comic set in an alternative universe called Watchman. Why Dr. Manhattan did this is not clear, but that ominous blue and black hand reaching out in #1 was his. Does this all sound correct?

      -Jumping into the story itself, I thoroughly enjoyed it. There were so many lovely moments that solidified the idea that the Titans are long-time friends despite only just remembering each other.

      One scene in particular was after Linda Park was kidnapped by Kadabra, Wally and Lilith have a bit of a break-down. I love Dick Grayson's dialogue here, which I think is worth me posting

      EDIT: Ah, it seems as though I didn’t correctly comply with the website’s criteria for adding an image to a post. Can’t show you the image (it’s from #4, pg. 7).

      This is easily my favorite Dick Grayson moment from any of the Titans comics I've read. While most of Abnett's dialogue is lighter and more reminiscent of friendly banter, these small moments where the Titans can be honest with each other fills me with joy.

      -Quick acknowledgement of Brett Booth's art. I like his slender designs and he draws some very cool looking superhero poses. A minor and weird critique would be that his faces don't always look right, but I enjoy this style and I think he's an artist I would want to follow in the future.

      -Quick revisit to Lilith as well. Abnett again showcases her immense psionic ability by having her reawaken Abra Kadabra from his false identity. I would venture to say that she's the most powerful member on the team, except maybe for Wally, and I love how Abnett continues to push the limits of her abilities.

      -Speaking of Wally, #5 was incredible. I don't think I can fully comprehend just what exactly Wally accomplished. Super-speed is always hard to conceptualize, but Abnett does a nice job of subtly dropping hints about how fast Wally is moving (e.g. Wally is thinking in picoseconds, Kadabra having to bend light and time to keep up). His accomplishment and sacrifice was a true display of heroism, and his relinquishment of the blissful life in the Speed Force leading to his triumphant return in #6 was endearingly wonderful. Naturally, Wally was my favorite Titan in this story.

      -Abra Kadabra was immediately an interesting villain to me because of his egoistic showmanship. It's a nice touch that Abnett wrote most of his dialogue to be magician puns. Since Kadabra is from the future, it would make sense that he talks as though everything he knows about magicians is from a book he read, rather than actual knowledge. He had some pretty interesting motivations too; his narcissism isn't just a result of him being a megalomaniac, but the fact that he's from a dystopia where he is utterly unimportant and unimpressive.

      I was surprised how powerful he was as well. He could bend space and time, take on all the Titans with ease, and even seems to have knowledge of Dr. Manhattan's tampering when very few others did (he observes that history has been meddled with, and that its was "his handiwork," which coupled with the fact that Lilith saw the name Manhattan when she read his mind, I feel like Kadabra has a pretty good idea about what Manhattan has done).

      Besides, the title of "techno-mage" just sounds like an awesome RPG class!

      I even enjoyed his plan. Abnett dedicated a good amount of time in explaining how Kadabra would trap Wally in the Speed Force, but these were pretty abstract, hard-to understand concepts, so I appreciated that Abnett spelled it out for me. As far as defeating a speedster goes, it actually was a pretty creative scheme that of course was foiled by Kadabra's underestimation of the Titans' love for each other.

      -One thing about Kadabra though, which I'm quite certain is just me being an over-observant nut job. There's this small scene in #3, right after he vaguely alludes to Manhattan. He stops his monologue and observes there was blood on his clock, but this is never readdressed, he just keeps talking about his plan as if nothing happened. I can't decided if this was just Abnett attempting to show Kadabra's insecurity of his vulnerability or if it was a reference to something more.

      I would be interested as to your thoughts on this page:

      EDIT: Ah, foiled again. I’ll have to ask for clarification about what the requirements are for uploading an image in a message. #3, pg. 15 is the page in question.

      -And man, was it cool to see Slade at the end! I'm super excited to see what Abnett has planned for him!


      Well, I think that’s all I have for now. Thanks for the recommendation on this one, it was well-worth the read! As always, please feel free to respond to any of my comments and/or give your own impressions of this story. You can expect my thoughts on #16 - #20 of NTT very soon. Hopefully, I will get around to reading Tales of the New Teen Titans in a few days.

      Take care!

      ~QQ

        Loading editor
    • I think my natural inclination to be an "all-in" type of guy led me to become so passionate about Titans that I have been acquiring as much Titans knowledge as possible for years, far before I entered the professional publishing sphere. Additionally, I seemingly have considerable recollection and retention capabilities. Memorization has always come quite easy for me, which helps me keep track of decades of lore. My memorable is still fallible, for sure, but I like to consider myself a resource for others who are interested in the topics I have learned so much about. I am also very organized, so I like indexing and such. I digress.

      Noted on everything up to your "The Return of Wally West" analysis. Now, to address your points.

      1. I'm sorry that there were a number of aspects of the Rebirth special that you were not necessarily clued in on, but I hope you ended up poking around and learning enough that the experience of reading the special was worth it—especially for the Wally West-Barry Allen scene.

      But yes, the gist of it all is that Doctor Manhattan has had a heavy hand in altering reality to create the Prime Earth readers had been experiencing up to the point of that one-shot. So, rather than being solely due to Flashpoint, Doctor Manhattan was directly involved in altering reality, which included time being rewound in some ways. I wouldn't get too caught up in the "10 years" bit, as it seems to be a thread that DC touches upon some but not fully. I think DC has moved on from that point, largely as the powers that be among DC's bigwigs have changed positions and such. But yes, you get the gist of it.

      2. Yes, Dick's ability to calm everyone and command the scenario with both compassion and authority is impressive. It's a good scene, for sure. I don't know what my favorite Dick Grayson comic scene would be. I don't think this was the one that impressed me the most, but it was definitely impressive and heartwarming, so I think it's totally one befitting of your praise.

      I have similar thoughts as you on Booth's art. I feel like his bodywork is well done, but his faces can indeed be a bit off—lots of gaping, angular jaws and the like. But he does a great job with kinetic imagery. The characters look like they are moving, and you can imagine them going from scene to scene in your head fairly easily due to Booth's art.

      Omen has become a powerhouse in Prime Earth, for sure. She continually shows more and more impressive feats.

      Since reading this story the first time around, I have gone and read all of Wally's title as Flash, which features Abra Kadabra quite a few times. So I now understand Kadabra's hatred toward West at a much higher level than I did the first time I read this. I think Abnett did a good job recreating that disdain present in Mark Waid's and other Flash writers' runs that included Kadabra. And "techno-mage" as an RPG class sounds fun. Time to break out my d20.

      3. The scene you are talking about from issue #3 where Kadabra comments on the blood is indeed a hint that connects to the Rebirth mystery. At the time the story came out, Doctor Manhattan's involvement in the Rebirth mystery was implied but not completely confirmed. Some threads started in the Rebirth special were continued in post-Rebirth comic titles, and some of these had hints about the greater picture. Titans was one of those titles. The blood on the watch was a callback to the Watchmen, and specifically the Comedian, whose smiley button had blood drops on it. The imagery is something of a mascot/symbol for the Watchmen, so the brief scene was further indicating that Manhattan was directly involved with Rebirth. It also hinted at the upcoming crossover called "The Button," which took place between the Batman and Flash titles and was one of the next major threads along the Rebirth mystery.

      ____________________________________________________________________________

      Based on your Slade comment, I'm assuming you stopped reading after issue #6 of Titans (Rebirth), which is fair. I think you'll have fun with the next storyline in the series, as you may see some familiar faces—albeit re-imagined a bit for Prime Earth. I'm happy to hear you caught up to issue #20 of NTT, and I look forward to your thoughts on them, as well as your thoughts on the TotNTT miniseries, which I highly recommend you make time for this weekend.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
  • Thank you for the recommended reading. It's been very helpful. I just finished her early Batman/Detective Comics stuff. My ranking of the first 6 stories are Batman #141, Batman #153, Batman #139, Batman #159, Detective Comics #233, Batman #144.

    • 141 was my favorite due to her saving everyone from the Moth
    • 153's 3-part story was engaging and fun to read
    • 139 introduced her and had her save everyone twice
    • 159 didn't have a lot of Betty but I did like her role and the plot was intriguing
    • 233 silly but enjoyable plot, she's not in it too much but she did help save the day
    • 144 I hated how they played her crush on Robin to death. It was stupid

    If you'd like to talk on Twitter, I'm @tsukiakari1203

      Loading editor
    • View all 7 replies
    • In some ways. I think a Batgirl was bound to happen anyhow. The idea around Barbara Gordon becoming Batgirl was independent of any of contribution Betty Kane made. It's possible that Betty's existence helped creators decide how they would shape Barbara's character. But I do think a Batgirl would have been created, even if Betty had never been created. Batwoman may have had a stronger impact. Unfortunately, I have not read enough sources that discuss how creators/editors at the time settled on Barbara's character and how Kathy (and by extension Betty) may or may not have contributed to Barbara's creation. There may be sources out there on it. There may not be. Sadly, not all creators publicly put out that sort of information.

        Loading editor
    • I do wonder about the creative processes that went into characters back then.

      It is weird going back and reading these stories that have Betty and Bruce interacting, I’m used to the cousin retcon. I also noticed that the Kane family seems to love using the names Elizabeth and Katherine. It’s kinda odd. I know the Elizabeths were named after Bob Kane’s wife, no idea where Katherine came from though.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
  • Hey N8, I had some questions about your Titans recommendations.

    Since I'm currently caught up with the New Teen Titans trades, I'm thinking on skipping ahead to Geoff John's run (which I've seen you recommend).

    I was wondering if there are any Titans related comics you'd recommend that were published in between these two eras. Specifically ones that are collected in trades.

    Also, does John's run have any spoilers for future NTT issues? If it does, I might just wait.

    Thanks, Leostales

      Loading editor
    • View all 5 replies
    • Wow, you truly do go above and beyond the call of duty when answering questions. Thank you so much.

      3 years is awhile, but that should definitely give me enough time to read Young Justice. I already own issues 60, 61, and 70 so its no loss to me if they leave those out.

      I was worried I'd have to read Johns' run to appreciate Titans, but it looks like I don't, so I'll be able to dive in once I've read Titans Hunt.

      I think thats all the questions I have, thanks for the help.

        Loading editor
    • No worries. Feel free to follow-up if you have further questions down the road. I also wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on Titans Hunt and/or Titans or Teen Titans (Rebirth versions) as you read them. And, of course, if you have any questions about those series, feel free to shoot them my way.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
  • Hi N8, I just finished the first issue of the New Teen Titians. Thank you for the recommendation and the information. It is an awesome read. I can tell that I am really going to enjoy this series. I hope you are well.

      Loading editor
    • View all 6 replies
    • Hey, Mack. I thought I'd check in to see how far you have gotten in New Teen Titans this last month. Hope you're well.

        Loading editor
    • Hey, thanks for checking in N8. I’m currently reading issue #3, definitely looking forward to that surprise in issue #8. This series is really enjoyable; I appreciate the recommendation. Thank you; I’m well. I hope you’re well too, my friend.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
  • Hey N8! This morning I started reading Nigthwing: Old Friends, new enemies. And about 5 minutes ago I ended "The secret Origin of Nigthwing" and man… taht issue/story… it's the thing taht comes rigth in time on the perfect momento so I gotta thank you. Yes... we would be focusing on Roy, but well… Dick is my favourite carácter, and you gifted me with this. On that comic he's saying that he's 20, and taht doesn't know what to do with his life… It was just so relatable. How he takes a look at his old life… how he says "you don't know if you can't fly, unless you take the risk of falling".

    It migth be one of my favourite Nigthwing issues/stories at this point. Idk it came at the perfect time, thanks =)

      Loading editor
    • View all 9 replies
    • Hey, Blais, how's the Roy Harper reading coming along? I thought I'd check in. Hope you're doing well.

        Loading editor
    • Hey N8! I owe you an apology since I left and never messaged you about it. Thanks for reaching out, I appreciate it.

      Thing is rigth now I'm with my finals so in a week or 2 I'll finally be free. But well the bad news are that this past months I've actually losst interest in comics. Marvel and Dc, I don't even read things about my favourites anymore, but hopefully once I'm done with exams I'll be able to get the feeling back.

      So yeah currently not reading at all. Hope you are doing well too! thanks again

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
  • Hey N8! I recently finished reading the 2nd trade of Teen Titans by Geoff Johns. I'm going to post it. Should I put spoiler alert? Or post it just like that?

      Loading editor
    • If you're doing a review, you don't necessarily need to do the huge "Spoiler" tag thing. That's usually reserved for comics that are less than a year old. But if you wanted to note in the introduction of your post that there will be spoilers for anyone who hasn't read it yet, you can. You just don't need all the ***SPOILERS*** stuff with all the dots and lines and everything between your intro and your review. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

        Loading editor
    • A gentle reminder. I've posted the review.

        Loading editor
    • Hey Roger, you mentioned that you may be picking up the first trade for New Teen Titans and write a review on it for the board since you were waiting for more Outsiders and TTv3 trades. Are you still considering that? I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on the trade.

        Loading editor
    • Hey Roger, I thought I'd pop in to see how your Titans readings have been progressing, assuming you've read more since we last touched base. Being stuck at home has made me stir-crazy, which makes me want to talk about comics more, ha. Hope you're doing well.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
  • Working on another FANDOM post and I ran into an issue. Grimm told me that you've read Erik Larsen's Aquaman run from the 2000's and I have a quick question. Do you know the exact name of the team Lagoon Boy, Sheeva, and Blubber are members of? I've seen it as both Landlubbers and Landlovers both on here and on other sites and I can't seem to find a definitive answer.

    Thanks!

      Loading editor
    • View all 10 replies
    • It's the strangest thing. I used several of your suggestions when I was writing it. I'm using Deep Blue, Neptune Perkins, Tula, Koryak, and Lagoon Boy (the reason for the Landlovers situation).

      While researching the semantics of the team's name, I read a good chunk of Aquaman Vol 5 on DC Universe (it has the whole run). While reading, I discovered Noble, who I feel is a very interesting character. I'm planning on reading the whole run, as both Koryak and Deep Blue make their debuts. Plus, it'll give me the opportunity to leave more about Aquaman and his supporting cast.

        Loading editor
    • I highly recommend the entirety of Aquaman Vol 5.

      + David's run changed Aquaman's portrayal into one that was used for a long, long time. David facilitated Garth's transition from Aqualad to Tempest. He evolved the character of Dolphin to levels much, much higher than she had exhibited before. She became really fleshed out. David created Koryak and Deep Blue, two significant characters in the Aqua mythos with ties to the larger DC mythos. And he created a bunch of other fun supporting characters, like Letifos, Guardian of Hy-Brasil, Spought, A.J., and others. And he brought back other lesser characters and gave them more, like Nuada. Most importantly, though, he really fleshed out the history of Atlantis, adding many new ancient cities and civilization and -- well, it's great what he does for the Aqua-mythos.

      + Abnett's run gave closure to A.J. and brought back Mera. Furthermore, Abnett is the one responsible for giving Mera her "bad@$$" personality that she has mostly been maintaining since then up to now.

      + Larsen's run introduced the Landlovers, especially Lagoon Boy, Blubber, and Sheeva. Larsen also introduced Noble, who is a main character in his run (but not anywhere else). Larsen brought back Arthur's mother. Importantly, Larsen married Garth and Dolphin and had Dolphin become pregnant.

      + Jurgens' run had Garth's baby (Cerdian) being born and then a whole war was fought over it. Tempest was almost as much of a main character in Jurgens' run as Aquaman was, and I love it for that. Tempest was kick-tail in that run.

      Final Note: With Neptune Perkins, I imagine him more likely making an appearance in the Aquaman movie as "Senator Perkins," simply a senator on the surface who is name-dropped. That would be nice.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
  • There's just one detail about moving the images. Make sure to edit the information of every file so that the (Prime Earth) tag for Damian is changed to (New Earth). Like what I did here.

    Let me know if you need help.

      Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
  • Thanks for dropping that 'I hate superman... no I don't' thread.

    There's a few weird patterns in that particular OP's interactions with three other wiki members (and the timing of their on-line presence) who were suddenly all over the board for just the last two days - (and 3 days exactly one month ago) making me think they're the same user.

    Just here to 'second' any second thoughts you might have about the last 2 days posts.

    Thanks, RC

      Loading editor
    • I believe trolls tend to put far too much effort into their "work" (trolling), so I wager what you suggest is certainly possible. I shall try to keep an eye out, but I feel like people of that nature like to appear, cause mayhem, and then disappear for long periods of time. So even if these instances have been moments of trolling, I am sure they won't last for long.

      All the same, I understand your annoyance.

        Loading editor
    • Appreciate.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
  • Hey N8!

    I'm working on a project and came across an issue. I know that Kyle Rayner was a member of the Titans, but I can't find the exact team that he was apart of. I've gone over several pages for the Titans, but I can't find him in the 'Former Members' section.

    Any and all assistance is appreciated.

      Loading editor
    • View all 26 replies
    • Great!

      And I too like "Did you Know...?" over ranking lists as well. Less chance for bias both personal and general.

        Loading editor
    • Indeed. I enjoy learning factual information about comic characters, and those type of "Did you know..?" articles do that far better than the ranking ones -- mostly due to the lack of (or less frequent use of) bias.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message
Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.