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Kal-El/Kal-L

Has it been stated somewhere that this Superman's real name is Kal-L? I thought that Kingdom Come/Earth-22 was an alternate future of the post-Crisis universe, where Superman's real name is Kal-El. The Clever Guy (TalkContribsE-Mail) 10:23, 18 August 2007 (UTC) Yes in JSA and his cousin is Power Woman on Earth-22.

Background/History of Earth-22 Superman

Okay I am going to wait until JSA 15&16 are released where this matter is put to rest and the Earth-22 Magog and Kal talk about what happened to Earth-22, as I do not want to discourage people talking their time to add into the database. But this stuff is NOT correct to this SPECIFIC character.
Again Earth-22 is NOT Kingdom Come, but Kingdom Come LIKE and several of these additions should be listed under Superman (Kingdom Come), NOT Superman (Earth-22)
Kal_l_fan 6:51, 16 February 2008

Yet some people posting on the forums (at least here) seem to have the general opinion that Elseworlds character histories should be placed under the title of the nearest 52 multiverse counterpart, in this case having "Superman (Kingdom Come)" under "Superman (Earth-22)", despite possible differences (that could be adressed in the "Notes" field or somewhere else). That would not require us to write multiple entries for each character appearing in Kingdom Come AND their Earth-22 counterparts which I think would be completely pointless and a great waste of time.
If this is the same Superman that appeared in Kingdom Come is just a matter of perspective; some people would think that they are different characters but similar; others (such as myself) think that they are same people, but with just slight changes. It's the same for, well, for instance, the original Legion of Super-Heroes, how they became post-Crisis, and after Glorith's manipulations, and now, when they have appeared in Lightning Saga and Action Comics. As I'm one of the very few who edit Legion stuff here, it would be an accomplished nightmare if I had to create different articles for every Legion character that have existed and for every little (or greater) continuity shift (especially when you think of that my knowledge of the Legion between the first Crisis until the third reboot 2004 is Spartan). To prevent that (and a lot of confusion and continuity nightmares), there only have to be three pages for each character in the continuity shiftings ("Pre-Zero Hour", also with Lightning Saga and Action Comics; "Post-Zero Hour"; and "New Earth" for the 2004 reboot characters).
I really hope that makes sense to you...
The Clever Guy Talk 22:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I understand what you are saying regarding minor edits and differntiation for essentially the same character if their previous version is close enough to note with a brief reference , as I did myself regarding Lia Nelson (Flash of Earth 9) versus her original Tangent incarnation because other than a lack of flight for Earth-9 version we just do not know enough to say there is a large amount of difference between the two. That is why I suggested to the posters who work on this article to wait until JSA 15&16 where some FUNDAMENTAL difference beyond just the Kryptonian name and cousin will be shown for the Earth-22 Superman against the original Kingdom Come incarnation -- which will cause a LOT of true Kingdom Come fans to get mad at the writers, if they do not change the finalized version.
Kal_l_fan 8:51, 16 February 2008
Ok... ...the funny thing is that when I've read Kingdom Come, I've never seen the name "Kal-El", only "Kal", and Power Woman's real name is never mentioned. Thus, the only thing I think will contradict Kingdom Come (I can be wrong, as I have not read JSA, only reviews on Internet) are the fact that Kingdom Come was in a possible future (and Earth-22 a parallell universe) and that Superman's and Power Woman's powers might be different, which would mean that the MLF and Batman's Outsiders had another reason for not using kryptonite against Superman... ...that's what I can think of for now at least. If that's in any way "fundamental", that would only be in their origins, and not for comic fans, who would still regard them as same people as before, and might never even notice the "fundamental" differences.
I have created a template that could be placed on Elseworlds/52 characters. I'll ask Brian what he thinks about it.
But you're right, we should wait for JSA#15-16. That's probably the wisest thing to do... The Clever Guy Talk 10:39, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Power Set

In the interest of staving off a potential edit war, I made a few small modifications. I rolled back the lengthy power set that Salubri included as they only pertain to Post-Crisis New Earth Superman and do not necessarily reflect the capabilities of Earth-22 Superman. Since E-22 Supes comes from a different reality, we cannot yet assume that his Kryptonian physiology is exactly the same, even though he has demonstrated similar powers. I put together a collapsible power set template which I included on the page. The specifics are primarily written by Salubri (wouldn't dream of taking credit for it by myself), though I did doctor some areas to make them more Kryptonian-specific. --Brian Kurtz 17:32, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Edit wars are bad, m'kay?

There has been an excessive amount of reverse editing going on with this page. Kal l fan and Salubri need to begin communicating with each other more (preferably on this page) rather than simply reversing each other's edits. --Brian Kurtz 20:55, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


Kaizen Gamorra (Earth-50)

FYI, just moved your new page to Kaizen Gamorra (Earth-50) to be in keeping with the naming conventions.

Roygbiv666 00:20, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Superman (Earth-22)

Salubri

In an effort to try to come to a compromise with this entry as indicated by Brian Kurtz (as noted above) would you please point out all your references regarding this entry?

Namely

1) where in Countdown 48 this SPECIFIC Superman appears? Quote page number please.

2) where is it specified that his powers are yellow sun based? Not your guess but actually stated that his powers are yellow sun based quote book please.

3) Why do you INSIST on ERRONOUSLY adding Kingdom Come edits such as "only to become confronted by Green Lantern and Obsidian of Earth-22." when the writers SPECIFICALLY state that is NOT true?

4) why if he is painted with WHITE hair on his head and a ponytail already BEFORE the Earth-22 Joker's murder (shown on Justice Society 11, page 6 in the alex Ross paint next to the button where he written as saying "Can I have some more tea?") when the Earth-22 Superman is remembering on the last panel on page which is COMPLETELY different from the Kingdom Come Superman who is completely black haired and thus far YOUNGER than the Earth-22 Superman

AND the fact that almost NONE of the specific background of the Earth-22 Superman has been revealed that specifically parallels the true Kingdom Come Superman other than the Earth-22 Batman also formed a team comparible to the Kingdom Come Superman due to the Earth-22 Magog

why do you keep saying everything that happened to the Kingdom Come Superman has happened to him as well when he OBVIOUSLY is made OLDER and different from the TRUE Kingdom Come Superman?

Because ALL of the content you have added thus far and CONTINUE to put back are conjecture, proposals and generally WRONGas far as what has been shown in the books published thus far for THIS SPECIFIC character who has been REPEATEDLY shown NOT to be the actual Kingdom Come Superman. Kal_l_fan 03:55 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Power Set revisited

The same problems that were outlined by Brian Kurtz on Mar 20 are still recurring. The very detailed description is specific to another character and includes exact numbers, assumptions and examples that are not germaine to this variation of Superman. Any specifics included need to have references that are for THIS Superman, not some other version. The Paradox 03:04, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Earth-22 = Kingdom Come, right?

This page is very confusing. On the Superman search page, this is clearly tagged as the Kingdom Come Superman. Most of the page also makes it seem this is the Kingdom Come Superman. That Earth-22 = Kingdom Come universe. But then there are direct contradictions that, too. As far as I know, Earth-22 is indeed the universe in which Kingdom Come took place. I don't get where this idea of it being a possible future for the then current timeline. My copy of Kingdom Come clearly has the "Elseworld" logo on it.

Bruce B 23:14, January 25, 2012 (UTC)

Blame The Kingdom. --Tupka217 15:13, January 26, 2012 (UTC)


Duh! Can't believe that The Kingdom escaped my mind. Ok, I can understand where the idea it being a possible future comes from. Still. I see no reason why we should not think the Kingdom Come Superman is the Earth-22 Superman. I mean, when he comes to New Earth, there's a reason why the series is "Thy Kingdom Come." There's a reason why we see panels directly from Kingdom Come. This is the Kingdom Come Superman. Yes, there are some slight differences, but since when is it odd for a comic book hero's history to be changed? How many times was the origin for the New Earth Superman changed? He was still the New Earth Superman. Bruce B 23:13, January 27, 2012 (UTC)

We treat them as the same, but we hadn't come around to cleaning everything up. --Tupka217 08:04, January 28, 2012 (UTC)
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