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Bueno

The way this scene is worded makes it unlikely for that it was Bueno Excellente. Bueno means "good". It would make no sense for someone to say his first name over and over again, but it would make sense you say "good" over and over again. Hence, Kyle was dateraped by a random Spanish-speaking woman (or man), not Bueno Excellente. --Tupka217 09:31, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

I think it was definitely Bueno. That's the only word the dude said in all his appearances. He "fought crime" through the "power of perversion" (basically raping people off-scene). This makes more sense because Bueno Excellente was a Hitman supporting cast guy and this scene is in JLA/Hitman. Kyletheobald (talk) 13:10, August 1, 2013 (UTC)

uM, WHAT?

Um... Maybe instead of the current title the page should be "characters who were raped" or "victims of rape"

First, because I think most people know what rape is, and those who don't are too young to know.

Second, the page is mostly a list of victims of rape, so "characters who were raped" or "victims of rape" would be a more appropriate title. PyroGothNerd (talk) 19:24, June 14, 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I think Rape covers it sufficiently. There's no need for a longer title. There's also Suicide, Drugs, Alcohol and Killing, short pages that list victims (and perpetrators). --Tupka217 19:32, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
I would rather that the page wasn't serving as a list of any and everyone who has ever been raped, instead of a serious examination of the use of Rape in comics as a plot device... - Hatebunny (talk) 19:54, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
I agree that an article is to show in detail what is actually rape. The victims could be listed in a subpage, for example Rape/victims. When I started editing, I saw only a small explanation and list of victims, and I think the list should be separated from the article. --Agente Leite (talk) 21:54, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
I think it should cover both. --Tupka217 21:59, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
Whatever we do, we need to walk the tightrope on this one. There's a fine line between covering how this is used as a plot device in comics and creating something crass or insensitive. I also think there are more practical things we can categorize than "rape victims." Kyletheobald (talk) 23:01, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
I very much agree with Kyle. The last thing I want is for this page to become some kind of greatest hits list for people who want to glorify rape or a check-list of stories for creeps who want to use/read them for unhealthy reasons to use to find them. It's supposed to be an educational article, not an obsessive compulsive listing. That's why it's a page and not a category - Hatebunny (talk) 23:25, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
Any idea how we can beef up the history section? --Tupka217 23:29, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
Short of writing a master's thesis, I'd say we need to use specific examples like those listed and incorporate them into the history text to explain different ways it has been used as a plot device - besides just fridgings - and how the issue has been dealt with in-story, as well as perhaps incorporating some commentary from interviews from creators who have used it in a story. And all that without getting altogether too preachy about whether it should or shouldn't be used. - Hatebunny (talk) 23:35, June 14, 2014 (UTC)
What would be considered a plot device worth mentioning? The character in particular I'm thinking of is Edward Lawton, who was raped and killed by a pedophile, therefore aiding in Deadshot's creation. Or, are you aiming for only the really big ones - like Batman being raped by Talia to create Damian? --- Haroldrocks talk 00:08, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
I don't think either case is particularly noteworthy. I'm talking about using examples that provide insight into some point that the history section is making, rather than just rhyming off cases like "this chick was raped by this guy in this issue. "this guy was raped by that guy in this issue." - Hatebunny (talk) 00:31, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

My intention when I created this page was to compile examples until we had enough resources to write an actual article. I don't personally think we need a separate page for listing people affected. I would definitely be in support though if somebody wanted to try actually writing up a respectful history of the way this issue is treated in comics. - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 01:35, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

(ec)

There is something to be said for pointing out how it is used as a plot element, and both of the examples Haroldrocks gives are that. One is a writer trying to give a reason for a character's motivation and the other... is borderline squik.

I agree that it would be nice to see more of how writers for DC have handled, and miss-handled, the topic, but a lot of it will fall into fridging. And I doubt any of have the time, or inclination, to write the master's thesis Rab mentions.

Aside from that... we may want to strip down the lists. Apply the following:

  • Remove uncited items.
  • Citations are need when a character/event is added. Not after.
  • Citations need to explicitly identify the event as rape. Not leave it to the reader to decide. And definitely not rely on WAGing that it may actually, if you look at it sideways and squint had enough, be rape.

And seriously think about requiring critical commentary be added along with the in-story plot elements.

- Byfield (talk) 01:51, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

Did not expect this many responses. I see your point, and after reading your responses I agree that instead of changing the title it would be better to change the article. Maybe mention some psychology studies about rape and relate it to how it's used in comics. Something to mention may be how it is used to show power vs helplessness EX: In one of the Sandman (Neil Gaiman) comics, threw as a guy who had a muse hostage and he would rape her. That could have been to highlight the terrible conditions she was in, show her helplessness, etc. PyroGothNerd (talk) 21:29, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

This is something that comes from working on another Wiki, but I think it holds here: We shouldn't be guessing. If the article is going to say "This scene or secquence is an example of rape used as...", we should be pointing to a source for that conclusion. Be it a third party, reliable deconstruction or review or from an interview with the writer, artist, and/or editor responsible for the scence seeing print.
The sad part of that is the cases where a source exists are few and far between. And most of those are going to fall under fridging or "sloppy/lazy" writing. It's one of the quickest ways to get a rise out of a hero, make a villain ultimate scum, or write off a character. And it tends to be a three for one.
- Byfield (talk) 21:40, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
There's probably some writing about the subjects, but it's more blogs than dissertations. --Tupka217 21:47, June 15, 2014 (UTC)
The American Psychological Association is usually a good source for stuff like this. https://www.apa.org/ PyroGothNerd (talk) 15:39, June 16, 2014 (UTC)
Rape in general, yes, but not rape as a trope. --Tupka217 15:57, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

How about TVtropes? There's a list of differnt ways its' used, there! https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/search_result.php?cx=partner-pub-6610802604051523%3Aamzitfn8e7v&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=rape PyroGothNerd (talk) 01:11, June 17, 2014 (UTC)

TVTropes isn't very academic. --Tupka217 10:28, June 17, 2014 (UTC)

Well, there aren't really a lot of other cites that go over that kind of stuff. PyroGothNerd (talk) 19:06, June 17, 2014 (UTC)

Abigail Arcane rapist vs victim

John Constantine is listed under victims of both Swamp Thing and Abigail per Hellblazer issue 6 ST possessing him to consummate with wife.

This appears to have happened again during issue 10:

In this case John regained control of his body during the act and thought "too late to stop" and only told Abigail it was him and not Alec after finishing.

Question is: does this make Abigail a victim of rape at that point? It's a bit confusing...

Presumably Constantine did not consent to lend his body in issue 6 which was why he was a rape victim. Do we know whether or not he consented to lend his body by issue 10? If he had then I could see viewing Abigail as a rape victim in this case. But if John still wasn't consenting in issue 10 then Alec/Abigail were rapists again... but does John become a rapist by not stopping or informing Abigail when he regained control? talk2ty 02:22, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

To answer your question, no, John never consents to lending them his body and is upset about it afterwards. And as for the "too late to stop" he clearly surfaces right as he's having an orgasm and immediately tells Abigail after he's done. So it literally is too late to stop. Abigail freaks out right after that scan ends, and accuses John of having been there the whole time and raping her, but it's not true. He just came back into his body while he was coming and that was all, and that is seriously not rape. He actually apologizes and tries to explain why he had to come back into his body, even though the whole thing is completely not his fault. I strongly believe this point should be removed from this list. Vyvyansboots (talk) 03:29, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
Like I said in the above discussion on the merits of the "list" I don't think we should have a list at all. But for the time being, we do. In any case, I think the Abby point should be removed as well. Her rape by her uncle, though (while possessing the body of her husband), is valid. - Hatebunny (talk) 20:24, February 19, 2015 (UTC)

Format

If we have a list of male and female victims shouldn't we also have a list of male and female rapists?

Also if that is alphabetical then I would like to make an "instances" list (merging all male and female cases) and arrange them chronologically. talk2ty 02:23, February 18, 2015 (UTC)

Pagename

It occurs to me that as a technical term, "rape" is explicitly penetrative sex. I don't know if I want this page to be that limited. Should we maybe change the name of this page to "Sexual assault"? - Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 12:27, February 19, 2015 (UTC)

Fine by me. --Tupka217 12:41, February 19, 2015 (UTC)
Also fine by me, but we need to change some of the page's body-text to be less specific, in that case (and probably fix some direct-links in articles). - Hatebunny (talk) 20:24, February 19, 2015 (UTC)

List the attempts of sexual assault

I sought more sources here in DC Wikia and found some attempts. Now I wonder if it would be wise to add attempts in the list. --Agente Leite (talk) 18:23, January 13, 2016 (UTC)

This page needs less list, more text. --Tupka217 18:25, January 13, 2016 (UTC)
Like I've said before, I don't think this page should be a list of assaults etc. The lists should serve as prominent examples, not a comprehensive list of every incident ever. - Hatebunny (talk) 18:29, January 13, 2016 (UTC)

Batman: The Killing Joke

I once read this comic, but the latest version, the Joker shows pictures of Barbara Gordon weakened and no doubt she was raped or not. --Agente Leite (talk) 16:55, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

There's no doubt she was raped or not? --Tupka217 17:02, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

When I read this volume, you have a scene that Joker shows pictures of naked Barbara and with blood on their private parts. On page 29 of this link, it shows a scene that was censored, but with more explicit nudity, making me wonder if she was raped or not. Agente Leite (talk) 17:22, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

That's speculation. She was shot near the private parts, could just be that blood. --Tupka217 17:40, February 7, 2016 (UTC)

Adding Characters to the list?

Wanted to add Invincible to this list, but, as having a list seems controversial, wasn't sure if you had to discuss it first.

Invincible was raped by the Viltrumite, Anissa, in “Invincible” issue #110 as part of her fulfilment of the Viltrumite breeding directive. Ōnyūdō (talk) 18:05, March 16, 2017 (UTC)

Invincible is not DC. He's Image. Though we cover some Image Comics, that's just the characters that were WildStorm later. --Tupka217 18:13, March 16, 2017 (UTC)
I was going to comment on this, Tupka, but still talking about characters who were victims of sexual assault, I wanted to get a doubt about the Harley Quinn, whose I saw in matters of other sites that may have been abused by the Joker while they were "lovers". Agente Leite (talk) 15:26, March 17, 2017 (UTC)

Rapists category

Would anyone see any problems with the creation of category:rapists? This article presently organizes the instances of assault alphabetically by the names of the victims. I think it could be useful to tag articles of the instigators with this. For example Trigon, Dalkriig-Hath, Nocturna, Solus, Lacey, Dardanus, Baron Uman von Mauler, Tanner, etc. Or in line with page name should this be category:sexual assaulters instead? talk2ty 15:52, October 19, 2018 (UTC)

I don't think that's necessary. With this page, people get the context, which they don't get with a category. --Tupka217 16:20, October 19, 2018 (UTC)

What about Granny Goodness being forced to be with Darkseid. And there's a unknown woman in Teen Titans #23 who is assaulted by Trigon. And there's a unknown woman in the 2008 Joker graphic novel. Or the woman who Orm just walked past as she got assaulted after he escaped from jail.

 -  Blackdog1998 (talk) 05:29, September 7, 2019 (UTC)
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